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Re: Supreme Court upholds Michigan affirmative action ban
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 8957
Quote:

sg44gold wrote:
Quote:

sg44gold wrote:
You want to level the playing field???

Pass a school voucher program and a school choice program.

They had a very successful one in Washington DC ... and the party that pretends to be for minorities SHUT IT DOWN!

Let the parents choose where their kids go to school. Let the parents get thier kids out of those crime riddled, cesspool public schools.



Bump.

Funny how some of you are avoiding the REAL solution to the perceived disparity in education.


School Voucher Program = Fail

Posted on: Ystrday 2:11 pm
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Re: Supreme Court upholds Michigan affirmative action ban
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 8957
Quote:

WVisHome wrote:
Quote:

stanleywvu wrote:
The justice system is a perfect example. A white and black person commit who have the same records get sentenced different for commit the same crime. The data are very clear that blacks get hard penalties.



There are no AA laws for the justice system. Irrelevant.


I thought you asked for examples of systemic racism, not examples of affirmative action. These two things would be mutually exclusive, wouldn't they?
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Education - the data clearly show that exams like SATs have cultural and racial biases that cause minorities to score lower.


Links? I find it hard to believe a series of questions that have a correct answer to be "racially biased". A person of any race can study and learn the correct answer.


This is pretty common knowledge.

Atlantic

Washington Post

Inside Higher Education

Diverse Education

Jay Rosner Standardized Testing Expert

In the last article, the expert shows that the bias is intentional. The proposed SAT questions are used for the PSAT and then measured for their success rate among students. Questions that are measured to have a bias among white students are used for the SAT. Questions that are measured to have a black bias, meaning more black students answer correctly as a percentage than white students, are discarded as "invalid." The testing organizations aren't racist. There are flaws in their methodology that favor white applicants.
Quote:

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Schools funding levels and opportunities are not equal across races.

This is blatantly false. Segregation was done away with long ago in the public school system.


It is provably true.

Quote:
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And the biggest example of all, and probably the most controversial on here, is the lingering economic disadvantages of slavery and then generations of racism that followed. Whites as a whole have a lot more wealth to pass along that has its roots in the racist, repressive laws in previous generations. The starting points for many blacks today are not the same as those for whites as a result.


Lingering economic disadvantage?

The year I left for WVU....my father cleared $14,000 that year. We lived paycheck to paycheck. My dad gave me a $50 bill when I graduated high school. I'd say that's an "economic disadvantage", no?

What did I do? I worked hard, earned a full academic scholarship to WVU, earned my Mechanical Engineering degree and entered the workforce where I've been promoted 3 times in 7 years due to my hard work and effort.

AND, I didn't enjoy the benefit of someone handing me something due to affirmative action.


That's just it. The system favors you so you don't want to change it. It isn't "handing" something to someone. It is using standards that are unbiased. Take the mock "Black SAT" test and see how well you do:

Black SAT

Posted on: Ystrday 2:09 pm
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Re: Yet another school massacre post-mortem analysis
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 8957
Quote:

stanleywvu wrote:
Quote:

Eers88 wrote:
Frankly, this thread is embarrassing.


What aspect of it do you find embarrassing?


It is just a thread of people having a brat attack. It has gotten so bad it is almost like a parody of itself. If someone says that they think trigger locks for handguns are a good idea, some gun advocate will immediately start screaming that you are a big government ivory tower "lib" who is coming for their guns and tells them to leave the country in their Prius. If somebody says that the current bills before congress won't accomplish what they are supposed to accomplish, then some anti-gun poster will scream that the person is against any measure of gun control and they want babies to kill each other by accident. Nobody is hearing anybody until someone calls them a name, then they won't stop posting about how someone called them a name. Please don't make me re-live it any more.

Posted on: Ystrday 1:46 pm
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Re: Supreme Court upholds Michigan affirmative action ban
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 8957
Quote:

mntnir wrote:

Despite having all these disadvantages, I worked hard and got to where I am now as a result. No one gave me a pass to get into college because of my background, and I didn't use being poor as an excuse to not work hard.

So, if someone who wasn't as qualified took my spot at UNC Wilmington just because that person was a minority, it would have pissed me off, and there would have been nothing right about it.

It's 2014. We have a black President. AA is way overdue to be overturned.


I can agree with this, but the question is really about who is more "qualified." If admission standards don't predict academic and post-graduate success, are they really measuring who is more qualified? If these same admission standards are likely to measure a white applicant as "qualified" and a minority applicant as "not qualified," despite the fact that the black applicants who were admitted, even though they scored lower on the admissions criteria, showed the same success academically and after graduation as white applicants, are they valid? I agree with what you are saying, but I don't agree that the admissions standards are absolutely measuring someone's qualifications, particularly in light of the inherent bias against minorities.

Posted on: Ystrday 1:35 pm
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Re: Yet another school massacre post-mortem analysis
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 8957
Quote:

mntnir wrote:
Quote:

Eers88 wrote:
Quote:

mntnir wrote:

C'mon Stan, I'm just joking around.


I am trying to be nice to you given your fairly recent post, but you need to stop trolling.




But, but, you never tell Stan to quit trolling? Why just me? Is it because we disagree on some issues?



I have posted that I thought Stan was out of bounds. Since you asked, with regard to the gun debate, I think many of the gun advocates in this thread shut their eyes and ears to the harm caused by guns, respond very emotionally to arguments in favor of gun control, and don't apply much reason to the debate. Guns are inherently dangerous because that is their reason for being, but some gun advocates won't accept that fact. It also appears that some of the gun advocates feel emboldened by the fact this thread is mostly them against Stan, so they act like high school bullies and really stray from the debate. It even carried to other threads. Stan has done his share of it in response, but from my vantage point he let a lot of it go for a long time before he joined that fray. Frankly, this thread is embarrassing.

Posted on: Ystrday 1:26 pm
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Re: Cliven Bundy and the BLM
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 8957
Quote:

stanleywvu wrote:
Oops. Just talked to my dad and it turns out I did overestimate this number. It's a little over 200. Consider the record corrected.


I find all this talk about losing cows upsetting. We lost a calf and a cow during the birthing process. I spent 2 whole days caring for the cow before she passed. Consider this an official notice that anyone who mentions cows is now officially a troll due to the new anti-trolling regulations passed by the Couch Gun Advocates.

Posted on: Ystrday 1:19 pm
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Re: Cliven Bundy and the BLM
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 8957
Quote:

brobison wrote:

EDIT: Regardless....it still isn't about 1 person. Civil rights were thousands of people. It wasn't about 150 people. Clive Bundy and his supporters aren't going to change anything whether they are right or not. To try to say they can is completely false and misleading.



I will agree with you there. He has the attention of the entire nation, and he says:

“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro,” he said. Mr. Bundy recalled driving past a public-housing project in North Las Vegas, “and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids — and there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch — they didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for their kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for their young girls to do.

“And because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he asked. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”

Posted on: Ystrday 1:16 pm
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Re: Yet another school massacre post-mortem analysis
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 8957
Quote:

WVisHome wrote:

Side note: Would you call the cops if I OC into your office to meet you? I'll be moving to Locust Grove very soon. Maybe we could grab lunch or something sometime.


I wouldn't care if you carried openly, concealed, whatever.

Posted on: Ystrday 1:11 pm
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Re: Yet another school massacre post-mortem analysis
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 8957
Quote:

mntnir wrote:

C'mon Stan, I'm just joking around.


I am trying to be nice to you given your fairly recent post, but you need to stop trolling.

Posted on: Ystrday 1:01 pm
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Re: Supreme Court upholds Michigan affirmative action ban
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 8957
Quote:

mntnir wrote:
A+1000=1100

Solve for A.

Those racists!


Brilliant! You just proved all the studies wrong simply by being snarky on the interweb. This is the kind of discourse that we need to solve our education problems. Well done!

Posted on: Ystrday 12:59 pm
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Re: Yet another school massacre post-mortem analysis
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 8957
Quote:

mntnir wrote:
Quote:

Eers88 wrote:
It seems like the definition of "trolling" has become pretty broad on the Couch, and includes posting anything that upsets someone. I thought trolling was when someone posts something on a board that is designed solely to elicit an emotional response.


You've obviously overlooked some posts then.

Then again, I'm convinced you and Stan are the same person. I also have a hunch that both of you are in fact Jude who posts far left stances in an attempt to drive traffice and increase thread counts.



Weird how the rest of the post re-appeared when I quoted it.

Weird how I disagree with Stan even though we are the same person. Weird how Jude just sent himself a PM telling himself to remove the cartoon buttcrack from the signature or whatever it is called. Jude must have MPD.

I don't know if you really believe this or are just kidding around, but it certainly is easier to try to minimize people who disagree with you then it is to actually think about what they say.

Posted on: Ystrday 12:55 pm
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Re: Yet another school massacre post-mortem analysis
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 8957
Quote:

jjmwvu wrote:

Exactly. The message he wanted to send was recieved the first time...and rejected. The next 50 times would be considered trolling.



I think you are describing close mindedness more than you are describing trolling.

Posted on: Ystrday 12:52 pm
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Re: Yet another school massacre post-mortem analysis
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 8957
Quote:

WVisHome wrote:
Quote:

Eers88 wrote:
I thought trolling was when someone posts something on a board that is designed solely to elicit an emotional response.


You're correct....and it happens regularly.

Continually posting article after article, day after day is not a discussion, disagreement, or any other form of debate.

It's done solely to elicit an emotional response, and he continues to do it for that reason. Otherwise, he would have stopped.


I don't think you can really discern his intent simply by his posting articles regularly. It could be that he is trying to show the consequences of the current gun laws and culture. It could be that he is trying to make the point regarding the frequency with which these events occur. It could be that he is f-ing with you. You really cannot tell simply by his posting the articles. I haven't read the whole thread, and there may be a post in which he indicates that he is posting them solely for the reaction, but the fact remains that they are relevant to the discussion, and it isn't healthy debate to assume that just because you don't like the articles means he must be posting the articles just to upset you.

Posted on: Ystrday 12:50 pm
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Re: Supreme Court upholds Michigan affirmative action ban
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 8957
Quote:

Monney wrote:
I see your point, and 88's, but I will maintain that even when talking about "cultural" and "racial" differences, it still goes beyond that, and down to a culture of poverty, more so then race.


This is a good point. It is very much about who is underprivileged and giving them equal opportunities.

Posted on: Ystrday 12:43 pm
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Re: Supreme Court upholds Michigan affirmative action ban
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 8957
Quote:

WVisHome wrote:
Quote:

stanleywvu wrote:
But there is systematic racism that creates economic disparity for minorities.


What 'systematic racism' are you talking about?


I think he meant "systemic."

Posted on: Ystrday 12:41 pm
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Re: Supreme Court upholds Michigan affirmative action ban
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 8957
Quote:

WVisHome wrote:
I have read Outliers.

It's been a while...but I don't recall that part. I do recall it mostly being about the fact it takes 10,000 hours of hard work and a some good luck along the way to be highly successful.


That is funny. That is exactly how I would describe it.

Posted on: Ystrday 12:41 pm
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Re: Supreme Court upholds Michigan affirmative action ban
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 8957
Quote:

WVisHome wrote:

I concur with the others that AA requirements are reverse racism...and far from "equality".

Level the playing field....make people actually earn things instead of handing it to them because they're in a special classification.


This is a pretty cynical view, and it has been shown to be mistaken. You might want to read the book Outliers, which discusses studies about what makes certain people very successful. In it, the authors discuss studies showing that admissions criteria don't necessarily predict success, and are in fact racially and culturally biased. Black students admitted due to affirmative action ended up as successful as their white classmates both academically and professionally. The correlation between the admissions criteria and success was much lower than the correlation between the opportunity to participate in the program and success.

Whether you support affirmative action or not, the facts are the facts, and the outcomes don't support the belief that people were being given something that they didn't "deserve."

Posted on: Ystrday 11:17 am
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Re: Bama favored by 23.5 over WVU
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 8957
I don't know what to make of it. Alabama's current starting QB is a fifth year senior with very little experience. WVU's starting QB is an unknown, but is not likely to remind anybody of Major Harris, Pat White or Geno Smith. The game is being played on a neutral site. The teams have many months to prepare for one another. It could be close or it could get embarrassing.

Posted on: Ystrday 11:09 am
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Re: Yet another school massacre post-mortem analysis
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 8957
It seems like the definition of "trolling" has become pretty broad on the Couch, and includes posting anything that upsets someone. I thought trolling was when someone posts something on a board that is designed solely to elicit an emotional response. For instance, a fan of another team posting that we are Hoopies who fornicate with our siblings would be trolling. I don't know that posting a legitimate news article about gun deaths in a thread about gun deaths is trolling just because gun advocates don't like to hear about gun deaths.

Posted on: Ystrday 10:56 am
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Re: Cliven Bundy and the BLM
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 8957
Quote:

brobison wrote:
Quote:
If that's not what you were arguing then why were talking about there being blacks in the south? http://www.wemustignitethiscouch.com/ ... id=707921#forumpost707921


You made it sound like there was only votes lost in the south. There were blacks in the South. At some point the decision is made. You look across the whole country. The Dems are a nationwide party. If they had waited 5 more years, George H.W. Bush and the Republicans would have done it and THEY would have had the votes. Sometimes you have to buy early to win.


The Civil Rights Act of 1964 wasn't about party affiliation. It was north against south. Read the data. A higher percentage of Republicans voted for it then Democrats. The southern legislators voted almost completely against it.

BTW - why in the world would you think Bush would have passed the Act? He was about as rampant anti-civil rights at that time as you could be.

Posted on: 4/23 3:26 pm
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