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Re: Media goes into full race batting mode.
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
8/2/2010 10:50 am
From Canonsburg, PA
Posts: 3023
Quote:
Well to begin with, have you looked at the data showing the differences in how blacks and whites are treated in the justice system? Differences in prosecution rates? Sentencing rates? And police engagement (e.g.: stop and frisk rates of minorities vs whites)? Do you deny those exist?


There are many reasons they can exist. You could have differences in sentencing because of previous record. I find it interesting that we jump to racism as the first explanation. I doubt that racism is the answer.

What is the motivating factor that makes systemic racism so appealing? Why would the system do this? What benefit is it to the system or those in the system to promote racism.

I find it hard to believe that racism is the answer. It is certainly convenient but I doubt the answer itself.

Posted on: Today 1:45 pm
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Re: Media goes into full race batting mode.
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
8/2/2010 10:50 am
From Canonsburg, PA
Posts: 3023
Quote:
Yes.


There is no other explanation than racism?

Realize that what you are saying has implications. Are you telling me that violent crimes are only prosecuted if the perpetrator is black, more so than white? I have a better probability of getting away with a violent crime if I am white? Or are you saying that large numbers of blacks are falsely imprisoned for violent crimes they did not commit?

This should be good.

Posted on: Today 12:28 pm
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Re: Media goes into full race batting mode.
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
8/2/2010 10:50 am
From Canonsburg, PA
Posts: 3023
Quote:
If so, then when you say you don't do anything special, you mean you would not want the police to enforce the laws differently based on race? You would not want them to engage more aggressively, target that group for higher rates or searches, stops, or have different rates of prosecution or higher sentences compared to other groups? I ask because that's exactly what the justice system does today and is why you get the reaction you do from blacks. It's not simply "complaining". It's a protest against a very real perception, backed by data, that minorities are targeted by police and do not receive equal justice.


Are you making that assertion? Are you stating that the "system" is racist?

Posted on: Today 11:09 am
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Re: MIA Couchers
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
8/2/2010 10:50 am
From Canonsburg, PA
Posts: 3023
Quote:
I left the Couch because I had been harassed by some weirdo on here and nothing was done about it for days.


Is the person still on the couch? I mean I understand that the vast majority of us are weirdos.

If its ScubaSteve that you are worried about, I think he has calmed down a lot...or else hasn't posted in a while. I know that I received some personal emails of questionable intent to. I just considered the source and moved on. I do understand that me being a guy and you being a girl would be different.....I hope that isn't a sexist statement. I am just trying to say I understand.

It would be really great to have you back. I think the majority of us would do what it takes to protect people here. I mean we all get pissed off at each other but I would hope no real harm would come to anyone.

....even Stanley and Wackobear.

EDIT: PM me if I haven't hit the nail on the head in the above message.

Posted on: 8/31 10:11 pm
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Re: The 2014 Pirates - GO BUCS!!!
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
8/2/2010 10:50 am
From Canonsburg, PA
Posts: 3023
OK. I guess I am going to have to take a large round of abuse on here for this but...

We, as a family, always attend at least one Pirate game a year. My daughter likes music so we always pick a concert. This July after I had waited too long, we were left with Gavin DeGraw and Lynyrd Skynnard. I sort of wanted Skynnard again (Play Free Bird!) but my daughter said..."Already seen them...pick someone else." So....DeGraw it was.....On August 30.

That is OK....WVU game at 3:30 Watch the game till I get pissed off head over to the Pirate game....No Problem.

WTF?!?!?!

A 4:00 PM game. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

So, I will politely be sitting in my seat, listening to my fully charged phone with Tunein (Thank you football gods) and cheering for the Buccos.....right after the football game ends.

What was I thinking?! Obviously, I wasn't.


Posted on: 8/30 11:16 am
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Re: Cease Fire on the Soap Box on Game Days
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
8/2/2010 10:50 am
From Canonsburg, PA
Posts: 3023
Quote:
Sure. I'll join in. And in fact...if WVU pulls off the upset..I'll make a pact to never post on the soap box again. How's that for team spirit?

But woe be unto you if we lose!

:)


Quote:
Talk about bulletin board material!


For the love of God! This locker room motivational speech would leave the "Leave No Doubt!" and the "Miracle on Ice" speeches a VERY, VERY, distant second!


Posted on: 8/30 11:08 am
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Re: The 2014 Pirates - GO BUCS!!!
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
8/2/2010 10:50 am
From Canonsburg, PA
Posts: 3023
Quote:
Josh Harrison should be NL MVP.


I told my kids 2 years ago that Josh Harrison would be on my team if I were a major league manager. He is a good player that wills himself to be better.

In my opinion, Harrison should have seen more action in the last couple of years than he has.....Yes...I think he should have been a regular. He had a less than stellar last year but he is an excellent utility man

Posted on: 8/30 7:53 am
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Re: Media goes into full race batting mode.
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
8/2/2010 10:50 am
From Canonsburg, PA
Posts: 3023
Quote:
You didn't answer the question.


You don't do anything special, but at the same time you don't sit around complaining about how people are afraid given the ONLY piece of information is that you belong to a group that is demonstrably more violent regardless of cause.

You attempt to find the cause and see if it can be brought into line.

You educate said group to understand the bad reputation they have and why it is EVERYONE's best interest to remediate this problem.

Posted on: 8/29 11:00 am
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Re: Media goes into full race batting mode.
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
8/2/2010 10:50 am
From Canonsburg, PA
Posts: 3023
Quote:
If true, what bearing would a past juvi record have on this instance?

Classic "blame the victim" campaign - sad.


Maybe a balancing of the picture given that he is the greatest guy in the world that his supporters would like you to believe. Not to drag in or resurrect the Trayvon Martin thing but the whole little kid picture kind of thing.

It also gives you information that may have been known by the policeman at the time. People don't operate in a vacuum. Had the policeman known that the kid was a problem his whole life and violent problems to boot would he be more likely to pull the trigger.....Yes in my opinion.

Posted on: 8/29 10:51 am
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Re: New Podcast is up
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
8/2/2010 10:50 am
From Canonsburg, PA
Posts: 3023
Quote:
There should be some kind of policy on here for solicitation.


There is....if one solicits they will come.....so here I go:

Open in new window

Any takers? Any? Hook'em?

Give a guy a break.

Posted on: 8/28 7:35 pm
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Re: Media goes into full race batting mode.
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
8/2/2010 10:50 am
From Canonsburg, PA
Posts: 3023
Quote:
When you referred to it as an illusion.


WOW! That is a real stretch.

I referred to the illusion OR the promotion. How can you promote something that doesn't exist? Not every instance of black/white confrontation is racist. That is a fact. In these instances Sharpton and Jackson produce the illusion. In instances where there IS racism they along with their proponents and the white supremists on the other side PROMOTE it. I stated both. If you bothered to take my statement within ANY CONTEXT whatsoever of the conversation you would have seen that OVER AND OVER AND OVER I have referred to racism. I also stated that racism is worse in other countries. Racism being worse could mean none but most likely means some exist but more exists elsewhere.

Posted on: 8/28 4:14 pm
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Re: Business as Usual
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
8/2/2010 10:50 am
From Canonsburg, PA
Posts: 3023
I think the truly sad part about the pharmaceutical companies is the amount of money these organizations get from the government (Institute of Health) to cure these diseases and then to turn around and stick it to the taxpayers. Hopefully, Lichtenstein has a great budget for supporting these companies because they wouldn't get another penny from the US if I were in charge. We can build another company here to compete with them with government help.

Posted on: 8/28 3:59 pm
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Re: Media goes into full race batting mode.
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
8/2/2010 10:50 am
From Canonsburg, PA
Posts: 3023
Quote:
If this is so, then people are very irrational. The likelihood of being killed by another person, especially a stranger, is very small, particularly if you are white and not a drug dealer. The "7.5 times greater" figure is insignificant because the base numbers are so small. It is like saying a raisin has 7.5 times more calories than a peanut, or vice versa. It is misusing or misunderstanding the data.


I think we have shown that on this site with Stanley's crazy protection of children from guns and the levels he wants to go through when a child is 10 to 100 times more likely to drown in their pool than be accidentally killed by a gun.

Finally something we agree on.

At the same time, people make many of the same mistakes with animals. Mosquitos are literally (<-yes used correctly) 1000 times more likely to kill you than a shark but I am pretty sure no one starts their 6 o'clock news out with a mosquito sighting.

The analogies are valid. Whether you like them or they are politically correct......

.....and congratulations on being so race neutral. You sir, are an outlier.

Posted on: 8/28 2:48 pm
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Re: Media goes into full race batting mode.
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
8/2/2010 10:50 am
From Canonsburg, PA
Posts: 3023
Quote:
In any event, this discussion is getting far afield from the point I was making - that people have inherent biases based on race, sex, etc., in response to your argument that racism doesn't exist and it is a hoax created by black leaders.


Where on earth did I say racism doesn't exist? Is this the place where I get snitty like you and whine about my arguments being contorted? I think I stated there was racism in this quote.

Quote:
That is correct. At the same time, how many lootings and riots do you think we would have without racism? It is in the best interest of the media to promote racism. See below.

Do you deny that they aren't giving this coverage above and beyond its news value? I mean there was rioting and looting for a couple of nights and for the most part the subsequent rioting was done by out-of-towners am I right about that?

If we lived in racial harmony a significant number of events would be like the Utah kid and would be a non-story. What would fill the dead air then? Racism provides a viable news story during slow news periods between plane crashes, wars and elections. There is 24 hours 7 days a week of air time that needs to be filled and there is important needs to differentiate the coverage from the "mainstream" or those filthy "conservatives/liberals"


I have at NO POINT in time stated there is no racism. I merely stated it is in a LOT OF people's best interest to promote racism and not really in their best interest to eliminate it.

Posted on: 8/28 2:40 pm
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Re: Media goes into full race batting mode.
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
8/2/2010 10:50 am
From Canonsburg, PA
Posts: 3023
Quote:
There are a lot of innate fears that we have moved past because of our intellect.


We are LESS unlike animals than you think we are.

Posted on: 8/28 1:05 pm
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Re: Media goes into full race batting mode.
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
8/2/2010 10:50 am
From Canonsburg, PA
Posts: 3023
Quote:
What do you do about one group having a higher incident of homicide than another? What actions are acceptable to you and which do you think we should take?


Well, if we take your stance on guns as a proxy we should be able to do background checks on people any time they interact with other people as that is a potential place for homicide regardless how small. We should set up kiosks ALL over to do these checks and if the person has a criminal record shouldn't be allowed to interact with another person regardless of how long ago the criminal offense happened. You can never be too careful when it comes to life and death, you know.

Posted on: 8/28 10:28 am
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Re: Media goes into full race batting mode.
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
8/2/2010 10:50 am
From Canonsburg, PA
Posts: 3023
Quote:
What does that bring us back to? To a large degree, past racism and to a lesser degree present racism.


First off, you will NEVER get rid of racism. It is as much a part of who we are as our 23 chromosomes. It is a VERY valuable tool that we have used to survive and for our ancestors to survive. Think about what happens when a lion eats Grog. The next lion we see if we were not predisposed to judging on looks we would meet the same demise as Grog. At the same time, tribal creatures like us HAD to recognize when a different tribe was approaching. The inability to do this had serious survival implications. Stereotyping is an inherent part of any animal that has had to survive a dangerous world. As a result any animal of practically any intelligence level has it. So the attempt to eliminate racism is a fool's errand.

The question is when is it useful and what to do with it. I recognize that I have a predisposition to eliminate interaction with people "not" like me. When I have hired I have gone out of my way to interact with the potential candidate to the point of making a first impression in a way that is NOT visual. As a result, I have made 3 decisions to hire and have hired 1 person of color. That, in my opinion is doing pretty good as that is 33% of the people I have hired in a business computer science/engineering that has a low representation of this ethnic group. The problem can be communications. The fact is that sometimes I could guess the ethnicity of the person simply from an email and I would disqualify this person from the running even though many, including those in my company, that would denigrate me from doing so. I am sorry but the use of proper grammar is important. I grew up in a hick holler in a coal mining town where none of us spoke proper English. I was able to learn it so can others and I try to do so now. I am not talking about small grammar mistakes, we all make them. I am talking about communicating with people that can not conjugate the verb to the proper tense or even be bothered to have subjects and verbs in their sentences. In most instances I have no idea of the race because I have not seen them nor have I seen their name (I make my secretary take names off of resumes because I don't want to be biased.) but I have my suspicions. You can't have that in a professional office. This can harm people's chance for advancement.

Posted on: 8/28 10:10 am
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Re: Media goes into full race batting mode.
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
8/2/2010 10:50 am
From Canonsburg, PA
Posts: 3023
Quote:
You didn't answer the question.


There is no known answer to the question. It is an interesting question in its own right. At the same time I don't think it matters to the race discussion. I am sure it has a lot to do with socioeconomic issues. It is probable that they share these issues with all races and that once identified would greatly benefit race relations but until then, we have what we have.

One would suspect that blacks are not inherently bad people. That seems like too much of a cop out. It would be interesting to see if traits can be pinned down to certain racial genetics. I know that historically whites have been over the top with their killing and invention of new ways to inflict pain on others. I doubt that any research will be done in a timely enough manner to be relevant but it would, in my mind. be interesting to know. Is there a genetic predisposition based on race to a particular behavior.

The chances of getting any funding for this research is nill.

Posted on: 8/28 9:40 am
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Re: Media goes into full race batting mode.
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
8/2/2010 10:50 am
From Canonsburg, PA
Posts: 3023
Quote:
It's clear that blacks have higher incidents of crime, but why is that? Are they just bad people or are there other factors?


The issue started with blacks are the VICTIMS of racism and that is a valid perspective of why things like Furgeson happen. A STATISTIC was used which showed that 51% of whites had unfavorable view or blacks as a backup for that argument. The point is that the 51% unfavorable view is NOT a "number in a vacuum" it is a number that has to some extent been earned. Once again, not saying that once you know a person better or know more about a person the racial issue becomes less of an issue. I think we have gone out of our way to help racism over the years. At some point there is diminishing returns to that. You can't change the underlying numbers. When we have a murder rate that is statistically consistent and a violent crime rate that is statistically consistent come talk about the numbers IF they are still biased.

EDIT: It wouldn't surprise me if the violent crimes/murder consistency would be solved if blacks would stop killing blacks ala Chicago/DC/Detroit. I don't know for a fact but that is a lot of the problem.

Posted on: 8/28 9:03 am
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Re: Media goes into full race batting mode.
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
8/2/2010 10:50 am
From Canonsburg, PA
Posts: 3023
Quote:
So your hypothesis is that white bias against all blacks is justified because .024 % of blacks commit homicides?



Hmmmm....interesting that we are concerned about this stereotype and the numbers.

Here is a link to what I hope is a purely statistical site. I have no reason to believe that is an agenda. I am sure you probably will but the point is if you have a problem with the numbers refute them, don't just refuse to accept them.

http://wmbriggs.com/blog/?p=7168

You are 7.5 times more likely to be murdered by a black person than a white person assuming of course that you are a victim of homicide. That is a pretty serious number to have hanging over a particular race's head regardless of its relevance to a particular person's situation. I think that most people have this number in the back of their head. It DOES get reported along with the make-up of convicted criminals in which blacks are statistically OVER represented compared to whites when comparing violent criminals.

If I am walking down the street, and I am in a section of town which has high incidents of homicides and I see a black person I would be an idiot not to be at the very least more uneasy and more watchful. This is true whether I am white OR BLACK! My race matters not!

The same is true if I were walking down the same street in a bad section of town and I encountered a MALE. Male's are more likely to kill you than women. You are about 20 times more likely to be killed by a man than a woman. I would suggest to you that if you gauged a persons unease at meeting a white male or a black female you would see MORE unease with the male commensurate with the chance of being involved in a homicide but the sighting of a black male versus a white male should incite about 50% more unease.

Just because a person has unfavorable feelings doesn't mean that those feelings aren't in some way justified. Realizing that you know NOTHING about the men and women blacks and whites other than their sex and race. Certainly, one would like more information before creating biases against them but sometimes that is all we have.

Let's look at this in a different light so that we don't let race get involved.

If you were exposed to two different animals in which the chance that you would be killed by one is 7.5 times higher than another animal regardless of how likely that is (think sharks, lions, bears that kind of thing) would you be more wary of the animal that is 7.5 times higher kill rate than the other, all other things being equal? One would effectively be a fool not to.

Biases can arise that skew the likelihood of events happening and that is most likely happening in the homicide area. As I have stated in other threads if you leave the drugs alone and you live a "regular" type life your chances of being killed in a homicide are quite low and decreasing. But people inherently know the numbers and for the black community they are not good. I wish I could say this isn't the case but it is and you can't change that in the short term.

EDIT: The article says males are 10 times more likely but when I look at the chart it looks like 5 versus 100 which would be 20 times. 20 or 10 the concept is the same.

Posted on: 8/28 8:26 am
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