We Must Ignite This Couch Message Boards

« 1 2 3 (4) 5 »

 
Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.

Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 12958
@ LSUiscoming - Your argument is flawed and you contradict yourself because you start with the premise that if is "unfair" to include all teams that win their conference in the playoffs. Then, you claim that a playoff system would cause regular season games to be "meaningless" so that teams could lose games and still qualify for the playoffs. You have it backwards. If teams know that they need to win the conference to qualify for the playoffs, then EVERY game means something. If the playoffs also included some teams that did not win their conference along with all of the conference winners, then even the non-conference games would have meaning. It appears that your "fairness" argument is based on your assumption that teams from small conferences cannot beat the big dogs. History shows otherwise.

Posted on: 11/22/2011 10:51 am
_________________
Open in new window
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.

Joined:
4/9/2008 12:11 pm
From Wilderness, VA via Hacker Valley, WV
Posts: 14518
The BCS would be more fair if the first "poll" was witheld until the 4th or 5th game of the season. Preseason/early season polls add nothing but bias to the system.

Posted on: 11/22/2011 10:55 am
_________________
We couldn't beat a freshman VT QB.....sad
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
9/11/2009 4:06 pm
From Tampa, FL via Elkview, WV
Posts: 3511
@LSUiscoming

We are now repeating and restating our points. I understand your stance and I believe I have sufficiently presented mine.

At this time it is nothing more than a nice discussion because change is not in the foreseen future.

We will just have to agree to disagree.

Posted on: 11/22/2011 11:12 am
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Suspected Punter
Joined:
9/16/2011 8:55 am
Posts: 138
@eers88, like my discussion with bolt, it comes down to your definition of what the word fair means. Thus, it'll always be subjective and we will just have to agree to disagree.

I don't think the winner of Conference USA, the Mountain West or Big East should get into the playoffs (especially after this season when the BE is going to be an absolute joke) while teams better than them get left out.

Under one of the proposed plans, for example, 11 of the teams will come from conference championships while the remaining 5 are at large bids. That's going to leave some very good teams like Nebraska, Michigan State, Arkansas, Alabama, Virginia Tech, Oregon, Oklahoma, Georgia, Kansas State, etc out in the cold, when clearly any of those teams are superior to the winner of the Conference USA.

I view this as punishing the best teams for playing in tough conferences.

As far as Boise, TCU and Houston proving they can play with the big boys, I think we both know they aren't on the same level. Like Utah in the Pac-12 this year, if you put Boise or Houston in the SEC, they'd get murdered.

Anyhow, like bolt says, at this point it just comes down to opinion and the discussion is just mental masterbation for the fun of it. I think we just have been shaped by our experiences as college football fans of our respective programs. You are more apt to support a broader, more inclusive playoff involving "the little guys" while I am more likely to support the top two teams being rewarded for their efforts during the season.

Posted on: 11/22/2011 1:11 pm
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Suspected Punter
Joined:
9/16/2011 8:55 am
Posts: 138
Quote:

WVisHome wrote:
The BCS would be more fair if the first "poll" was witheld until the 4th or 5th game of the season. Preseason/early season polls add nothing but bias to the system.


The first BCS poll isn't released until Week 9. The AP doesn't even figure into things whatsoever and just gives fans something to talk around the water cooler about.

Posted on: 11/22/2011 1:14 pm
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
7/29/2008 4:48 pm
From Deadwood, Lakota Territory
Posts: 8421
LSUisComing ... You don't understand FAIR.

If you include the Conference Champions from all conferences, then you WILL affect recruiting.

THAT will insert FAIRNESS into college football, especially recruiting.

You, on the otherhand, want to continue to exclude certain "lesser" conferences. And that will only serve to reinforce the UNFAIRNESS in recruiting and thereby continue down the UNFAIRNESS road that we are on now.

Why do you think they stopped allowing unlimted scholarships to begin with???

Do you think LSU would be competing with Alabama if Alabama could still have 300 kids standing on thier sidelines???

Why do you think Joe Paterno won so many games???

Your only goal is to PROTECT the current UNFAIRNESS because it favors YOUR conference SHAME ON YOU!!!

Posted on: 11/22/2011 1:20 pm
_________________
Liberal, Progressive, Socialist, Globalist Fascists in BOTH parties are trying to take over the U.S.A.

Help us Eric Cartman, YOU are our only hope.
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
7/29/2008 4:48 pm
From Deadwood, Lakota Territory
Posts: 8421
LSUisComing ...

You are being shortsighted and small minded.

Posted on: 11/22/2011 1:23 pm
_________________
Liberal, Progressive, Socialist, Globalist Fascists in BOTH parties are trying to take over the U.S.A.

Help us Eric Cartman, YOU are our only hope.
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.

Joined:
4/9/2008 12:11 pm
From Wilderness, VA via Hacker Valley, WV
Posts: 14518
Quote:

LSUisComing wrote:
Quote:

WVisHome wrote:
The BCS would be more fair if the first "poll" was witheld until the 4th or 5th game of the season. Preseason/early season polls add nothing but bias to the system.


The first BCS poll isn't released until Week 9. The AP doesn't even figure into things whatsoever and just gives fans something to talk around the water cooler about.


No...it's not like 2/3 of the BCS is a human component that begins preseason or anything, ya know?

Posted on: 11/22/2011 1:26 pm
_________________
We couldn't beat a freshman VT QB.....sad
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Suspected Punter
Joined:
9/16/2011 8:55 am
Posts: 138
@sg44gold

Let's do this without name-calling and generalizing, shall we?

Posted on: 11/22/2011 1:49 pm
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Suspected Punter
Joined:
9/16/2011 8:55 am
Posts: 138
Quote:

sg44gold wrote:
LSUisComing ... You don't understand FAIR.

If you include the Conference Champions from all conferences, then you WILL affect recruiting.

THAT will insert FAIRNESS into college football, especially recruiting.

You, on the otherhand, want to continue to exclude certain "lesser" conferences. And that will only serve to reinforce the UNFAIRNESS in recruiting and thereby continue down the UNFAIRNESS road that we are on now.

Why do you think they stopped allowing unlimted scholarships to begin with???

Do you think LSU would be competing with Alabama if Alabama could still have 300 kids standing on thier sidelines???

Why do you think Joe Paterno won so many games???

Your only goal is to PROTECT the current UNFAIRNESS because it favors YOUR conference SHAME ON YOU!!!


College kids will always want to go to the best programs with the best facilities. Try as you might, Western Kentucky University will never be as good as USC. What you're proposing sounds like football socialism- pretend that the winner of the Horizon League is as good as the winner of the Big 12 and bring them all to the table as equal partners. To think that will even out recruiting is overly simplistic.

As for the standardizing the number of scholarships, I think most people recognize that as a good thing. It's the same way in most college and all professional sports as well. You get x number of roster spots per team and that's it.

PS- After reading your posts in this thread, it's my opinion that you need to go easy with the punctuation marks. Every sentence doesn't need to end in three exclamation or question marks. You don't need to use a sledgehammer where a mallet will do. Thanks.

Posted on: 11/22/2011 1:57 pm
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Party Machine
Joined:
9/19/2011 12:04 pm
From Moundsville, Marshall County, WV
Posts: 631
I hate Boise and their troll fans that think they can compete with every team in the nation week in and week out. Why not shut them up? Make them win 4 games through grueling opponents. They are ranked in the top 10 in the BCS aren't they. I don't understand the problem. the 5-6 power conferences would practically have a bye game at home in the first round and then would have home field till the final four.

Look at NFL, NHL, NBA, etc. Those sports are all good and competitive because of socialism. Baseball sucks because it is all based on who has the most money. Socialism is amazing for sports. Worst team in the league gets the first pick. Every team has the same salary cap. I wouldn't want college football to go that far but would be nice that all division 1 college football teams were on the same footing as everyone else when it came to competing in division 1 college football. Seriously the way things are going how about the SEC just goes, makes its own division of college football separate from the NCAA and division 1 football. Then they don't have to play anyone else and keep their attitude that they are the best without having to prove it to the other top 13~ teams.

Seriously I think the SEC is the strongest conference they would probably have around 3 teams in the playoff every year with home field advantage. Just don't understand why fans like you just want to beat up Ohio state every year or ask for a rematch with someone in their own conference.


Posted on: 11/22/2011 2:33 pm
_________________
My vehicle doesn't need mountaineer gear, I have Blue and Gold on my license plate.

Mr. Sunshine on my God damned shoulders John Denver!
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.

Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 12958
Quote:

LSUisComing wrote:
@eers88, like my discussion with bolt, it comes down to your definition of what the word fair means. Thus, it'll always be subjective and we will just have to agree to disagree.

I don't think the winner of Conference USA, the Mountain West or Big East should get into the playoffs (especially after this season when the BE is going to be an absolute joke) while teams better than them get left out.

Under one of the proposed plans, for example, 11 of the teams will come from conference championships while the remaining 5 are at large bids. That's going to leave some very good teams like Nebraska, Michigan State, Arkansas, Alabama, Virginia Tech, Oregon, Oklahoma, Georgia, Kansas State, etc out in the cold, when clearly any of those teams are superior to the winner of the Conference USA.

I view this as punishing the best teams for playing in tough conferences.

As far as Boise, TCU and Houston proving they can play with the big boys, I think we both know they aren't on the same level. Like Utah in the Pac-12 this year, if you put Boise or Houston in the SEC, they'd get murdered.

Anyhow, like bolt says, at this point it just comes down to opinion and the discussion is just mental masterbation for the fun of it. I think we just have been shaped by our experiences as college football fans of our respective programs. You are more apt to support a broader, more inclusive playoff involving "the little guys" while I am more likely to support the top two teams being rewarded for their efforts during the season.


You did it again. You say it must be subjective and then make it subjective. Being forced to win your conference is NOT subjective; it is OBJECTIVE. You have inserted subjectivity into it by assuming that your conference is superior to other conferences every year. You are also claiming that a playoff system has errors, but these errors are present in the current system.

If you want to make it objective, which I think it should be, then limit it to conference winners plus. How can a team that has not won its conference complain that it cannot play for a national title? Plus, the teams that have won their conferences will have the chance to play for a championship on the field. If they get bounced in round 1, so be it. They had their shot. If two teams from the same conference play in the title game, so be it. They won their way in.

How is a playoff system that includes conference winners punishing teams for playing in a tough conference? Under the current system those teams don't get a shot to play in the national title game, do they? They go to a non-BCS bowl game, just like they would under a playoff system. They have the same outcome and are not punished. You are confusing giving the smaller conference teams a chance to compete on the field with giving them preferential treatment. It isn't preferential, it is identical. You win your conference and you are in. If the goal is to crown a national champion, then it should be based on the final two teams getting to the final game through their play on the field. Under the current system the Houston's and Boise State's don't have that chance because elitists say things like "we all know they would get trounced." I would rather see a true national championship game rather than something akin to a homecoming king.

BTW - we all realize that the Big East sucks and that WVU might have underachieved this year a little bit.

Posted on: 11/22/2011 2:53 pm
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Suspected Punter
Joined:
9/16/2011 8:55 am
Posts: 138
Quote:

Eers88 wrote:
If you want to make it objective, which I think it should be, then limit it to conference winners plus. How can a team that has not won its conference complain that it cannot play for a national title? Plus, the teams that have won their conferences will have the chance to play for a championship on the field. If they get bounced in round 1, so be it. They had their shot. If two teams from the same conference play in the title game, so be it. They won their way in.


Your plan is still not objective. It's rooted in the assumption that all conference winners are equal and deserve to play for the national championship. A 9-3 winner of Mountain West Conference is not equal to the 13-0 winner of the SEC that beat 8 ranked teams.

Quote:

How is a playoff system that includes conference winners punishing teams for playing in a tough conference?


Because in your system, a conference winner- regardless of which conference that is- would get into your playoff. Meanwhile, your system would cast much better teams from the SEC, Big 12, Pac-12, etc out for not winning their conference, despite the fact that any of those teams would crush a 9-3 Cincy or Nevada team.

Quote:

You are confusing giving the smaller conference teams a chance to compete on the field with giving them preferential treatment. It isn't preferential, it is identical.


When a 9-3 Northern Illinois winner of the Mid-American Conference is treated identically to a 13-0 LSU team that has won games against 8 ranked opponents, then yes it IS preferential- to Northern Illinois.

Bottom line, I'm not for a playoff whatsoever. I'm merely pointing out the flaws in a playoff system that gives each conference winner a seat at the table regardless of record while better teams sit at home.

IMO, the BCS has done a great job in pairing the two best teams in college football since its inception (the 2004 season notwithstanding). My only tweak would be that the BCS drop its conference affiliation silliness and go with the best teams as determined by SOS, W/L, and quality opponents.

Posted on: 11/22/2011 4:43 pm
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Suspected Punter
Joined:
9/16/2011 8:55 am
Posts: 138
Quote:

MarshallCo wrote:
Just don't understand why fans like you just want to beat up Ohio state every year or ask for a rematch with someone in their own conference.


I want to play the best team left that we haven't beaten. For the record, almost all LSU fans are staunchly opposed to a rematch with Bama. We beat them already in their house. Why should we have to beat them twice, plus play an additional SEC championship game against another top opponent while they get to sit at home with a free ticket punched to the BCSCG? That's some hardcore BS and if we are lucky enough to beat Arky and Georgia to make to the big game, I hope the pollsters see it our way. I think we should play the best remaining one loss team that we haven't faced.

Posted on: 11/22/2011 4:47 pm
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Pitt Hater
Joined:
6/26/2010 9:15 am
Posts: 2367

See below

Quote:

joedaddyski wrote:
The following system was initially dreamed up when we had 32 bowl games, back in 2008.

Football Playoff system

My system debunks the whole notion of less money vs. the current bowl system and this system will determine the REAL national champion.

1) 16 team playoff system - take top 16 teams (who cares which poll we use, just use one they all have flaws but, down around the 16th team who really cares)

2) The first 8 games played are going to be played at current bowl locations, rotate through-out the current bowl system on a 4 year cycle, 4 x 8 = 32.

3) Higher ranked teams play at home through-out playoff.

4) National championship game played at a predetermined location.

Why is this system better?

1) Real champion is determined

2) More revenue - under this system 7 extra games played during this playoff system vs. current bowl system.
a)TV will get higher ranking - more advertising $
b)more bowl game locations (playoff fields) will sell out
c)teams that play home games will generate higher revenues
d)the National Championship will become a second super bowl; this NC location will get the highest bidder, cha ching.

You say -

1) Some teams have to possibly play in the cold - so what! And not always true. Only 6 maybe 7 (NC game) games will play in cold weather and for that matter who cares the fans will watch wherever the game is played. What about fans in Green bay and other NFL teams in the north, don't they sell out at -20 degrees.

2) Extra games for athletes - only 14 teams will play more than they would have played and normally they would be practicing during this time anyhow. Most of these teams would be playing in a game after Jan. 1 and they would be practicing during this whole time anyhow.

3) What about finals - they practice anyhow see point #2.

4) What about current bowl system - you will destroy it. No it won't. The fans will still travel go to see their favorite team play in a bowl game.

5) when do you play these games - right after the current season, have the playoffs before Christmas and the NC game after the last game in January - IMAGE THE HYPE.

6) Increased risk of injury - think about it, their might even be less. After each playoff game the athletes won't have anymore practice until spring.

Can you imagine -?
1) Hype = $
2) Real NC
3) This would make March Madness and the NCAA playoff on the same footing.
4) Possibility of fewer injuries
5) The fans would benefit
6) Advertisers would love it
7) Did I say a REAL NATIONAL CHAMPION!

Please pass this along to all AD's, coaches and anyone who will listen.

Posted on: 12/11/2011 4:55 pm
_________________
montani semper liberi & est ratio liberalismi aegritudinis animi
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
7/20/2008 1:23 pm
From Just barely outside the Beltway.
Posts: 7577
Quote:

joedaddyski wrote:
The following system was initially dreamed up when we had 32 bowl games, back in 2008.


I like your thinking. It will never happen though, because it makes sense.

Posted on: 12/11/2011 5:01 pm
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
1/25/2006 8:25 pm
From ohio via Panther WV
Posts: 9518
If you play the first three rounds at the higher seats home field then what chance does niu have vs okie state anyway? I'm sick of hearing "with bowls every game in the regular season counts" really? Tell that to tcu last year or okie state and Stanford this year.

Posted on: 12/11/2011 5:43 pm
_________________
Open in new window

I-79 Alumni
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Party Machine
Joined:
10/29/2011 6:34 pm
From Friendsville, MD
Posts: 661
Let's get back to the original point. The BCS is BS. If anyone thinks the BCS is anything but a money grab for the bowl itself, you are WRONG. Most schools lose money when they accept a bowl bid because ofthe ticket minimums they are required to purchase along with hotel minimums and cost of travel.

Disclaimer: I hate VT but they are the perfect example from "death to the BCS"

Case in point. VT made a profit of 2.35 million playing at fed ex field in 2010 against Boise state. Yet lost 1.6 million by accepting an orange bowl bid that year. What is wrong with that picture

How much money could they have made hosting one additional home game in a playoff?

Why? They have to buy 17500 tickets at face value, exactly like our beloved mountaineers have to this year. Btw, I paid $105 on stub hub for my club level seats. Hope the schools eventually realize this and put the bowls in their place.

A positive side effect of the financial shortfall for this years orange bowl, is the fact that we will have a ton of recruits from our #1 recruiting ground, be able to see us in live and living color( hope the school could donate those unpurchased tickets to recruits and their families. )

Pros of bowl games
1. So that playoff teams don't gain an unfair edge in recruiting by getting to play a few extra games.
2. Reward players and give the teams that valuable extra practice time
3. As in an earlier post, keep the 4 or 5 (cotton) major bowls for the top 8 seeds to compete in.

Negatives of bowl games
1. In business to make money, not to serve the participating schools and their student Atheletes
2. Ad's and conference commissioners are the real winners due to a corrupt system
3. Make money on the schools due to tickets requirements at face value and hotel minimums. This really pisses me off. Not to mentions those seats suck.
4. Deprive us as fans a chance for our team to run the table. I agree completely no one would have wanted to see wvu in a 05 or 07 playoff system. Our team was that good.

Lastly, until a playoff system is constructed, the BCS will not fall. The BCS wants division and all of these so called playoff ideas as just that. Ideas. If no one can agree on a better replacement then the BCS will just have to stay and all the fat cats that run those bowls will continue to line their pockets with everyone else's money while our institutions continue to run in the red just to get OUR Team to THEIR so called reward.

I love my team and it is not secret I have been to the last 4 bowl games and will be at the Orange this year as well. Call me a hypocrite if you want. I am there for one reason and one reason only. To support my Mountaineers!

Let's go.....


Posted on: 12/12/2011 9:32 pm
_________________
For the record, that’s senior Johnny Dingle and freshman Scooter Berry. Separately, they’re rather innocuous components of one of America’s top-five teams. Together, they form the world’s largest dingleberry, weighing in at a whopping 535 pounds.
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Party Machine
Joined:
10/29/2011 6:34 pm
From Friendsville, MD
Posts: 661
Bump. I still hate the BCS.

Posted on: 12/14/2011 10:51 pm
_________________
For the record, that’s senior Johnny Dingle and freshman Scooter Berry. Separately, they’re rather innocuous components of one of America’s top-five teams. Together, they form the world’s largest dingleberry, weighing in at a whopping 535 pounds.
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
11/10/2006 7:59 am
From Baltimore, MD
Posts: 5538
There is no way anything more than an 8 team playoff will happen. Somebody on here was actually talking about a 32 team playoff like it's NCAA basketball. Does the 32nd ranked team deserve any kind of a shot at the NC?

I'm with LSUiscoming. You have a small playoff to handle multiple undefeated teams or situations like 2007.

I believe a lot of people are brainwashed with playoffs. Does a single elimination playoff determine the best team? A lot of the times, no. It determines the team that happens to get hot. Look at all the lower seeds in the NFL that have one it all.

One of the unique things about college football is that regular season games mean SO much. Every game, if you lose, there's a good chance you're out of the NC picture. It's like playoffs all the time.

Posted on: 12/15/2011 7:16 am
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 



« 1 2 3 (4) 5 »




Login
Username:

Password:

remember me





Copyright © 2004-2011 wemustignitethiscouch.com All Rights Reserved