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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Grant Ave. Warrior
Joined:
12/15/2007 7:54 am
From Drexel Hill, PA
Posts: 1028
Quote:

wvu-willy wrote:
You know what's really funny about ncohen graduating top 1/3 at Harvard Law? So did Obama and he's an idiot! HaHaHa!


What's your definition of an idiot? the guy he replaced with the 90s IQ? Idiot. A law professor with a 130-140 IQ? not idiot.

You, for making the comment? idiot. Please have some basis for calling the president after the idiot an idiot.

Did you apply to Harvard? Did they take you? Can you get into any law school? And be in the top third? Or graduate at all? Or are you an idiot?

Posted on: 3/31/2012 11:30 am
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
7/20/2008 1:23 pm
From Just barely outside the Beltway.
Posts: 7701
Quote:

chaswv wrote:
Nice rant, zwaaa! Not sure I disagree with much of it and I better understand what you meant. Thanks for taking the time to 'splain it to me.


No problem. Basically what I am saying is that you are mostly correct in general, but wrong about sg44. He doesn't have defenses for his opinions, he has things he says when he disagrees with people - if you take my meaning.

Posted on: 3/31/2012 11:51 am
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court

Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 12958
Quote:

zwaaa wrote:
Quote:

sg44gold wrote:
PS - for anyone from the top third of harvard law to state unequivocally that the indivual mandate is "clearly" constitutional tells me that harvard law needs NEW con law professors!!!


Well, I'd say these feelings stem from a regrettable trend in this country. I call it opinion entitlement.

It's the situation where someone things something, and because they think it - it is therefore true.

Or, in more pedestrian terms: "I think, therefore I'm right", or to quote Issac Asimov

"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.".




I had an English teacher my senior year of high school who changed my view entirely on whether or not we are "entitled" to an opinion. He was an awesome teacher who taught us much more than English. He started the class one day by saying that people are NOT entitled to an opinion. We had never heard that before and it actually was a bit shocking to hear. He then explained to us, in more polite terms, that unless we wanted to be arrogant and useless, then we had an obligation to inform ourselves and get the facts before we formed an opinion, and that having an uninformed opinion would harm us and others. I still carry this lesson with me.

He was an awesome teacher. He was a former Army Ranger who had a PhD in English, but thought he would do more good teaching HS then college. He spent a class teaching us how a hand grenade explodes, which probably would get him fired today.

Posted on: 3/31/2012 11:55 am
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Webmaster
Joined:
2/11/2012 10:32 pm
From Seattle
Posts: 6752
Quote:

Eers88 wrote:
... He then explained to us, in more polite terms, that unless we wanted to be arrogant and useless, then we had an obligation to inform ourselves and get the facts before we formed an opinion, and that having an uninformed opinion would harm us and others. I still carry this lesson with me. ...


That's a great lesson. Sadly it's one that few people have learned. The tendency seems to be that we form an opinion and then choose those facts that agree with it while dismissing those that don't. I think its a natural tendency that we all have to one degree or another. But I completely agree with your teacher that giving in to that tendency can be dangerous and harmful.

Posted on: 3/31/2012 12:36 pm
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
2/18/2009 5:48 pm
Posts: 3411
Based on the foregoing facts, it's my opinion that a great teacher can impart invaluable wise and lasting lessons.

Posted on: 3/31/2012 12:47 pm
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Anonymous
Account_DeletedAnonymous
Quote:
Eers88 wrote: He started the class one day by saying that people are NOT entitled to an opinion. We had never heard that before and it actually was a bit shocking to hear. He then explained to us, in more polite terms, that unless we wanted to be arrogant and useless, then we had an obligation to inform ourselves and get the facts before we formed an opinion, and that having an uninformed opinion would harm us and others. I still carry this lesson with me


Like everyone did in the Trayvon Martin case, right?

EDIT: I know, wrong thread, but applicable, huh?

Posted on: 3/31/2012 12:55 pm
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Webmaster
Joined:
2/11/2012 10:32 pm
From Seattle
Posts: 6752
Quote:

wvman75 wrote:
Like everyone did in the Trayvon Martin case, right?

EDIT: I know, wrong thread, but applicable, huh?


Everyone? No. Some? Yes.

And I think it's fine to have an opinion based on partial facts. But you should remember that you only have partial information so may be wrong. That awareness should temper how strongly you put forth that opinion. In my opinion.

Posted on: 3/31/2012 1:02 pm
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Anonymous
Account_DeletedAnonymous
I thought we weren't entitled to an opinion.

Posted on: 3/31/2012 1:08 pm
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Pitt Hater
Joined:
9/20/2009 2:56 pm
From austin, tx
Posts: 1748
here's a link to the briefs -- I think the petitioners win on number of pages :)

http://www.americanbar.org/publications/preview_home/11-398.html



Posted on: 3/31/2012 10:23 pm
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Anonymous
Account_DeletedAnonymous
You counted wrong.

Posted on: 4/1/2012 10:53 am
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Pitt Hater
Joined:
9/20/2009 2:56 pm
From austin, tx
Posts: 1748
I was having trouble distinguishing health care and broccoli, but my wife pointed out the difference:

we expect the government to provide health care, at least for people who can't afford it, but subsidizing providers. We don't expect it to supply broccoli, or cars.

The mandate, insurance, isn't an actual product held for its own right, unlike automobiles. You don't drive in it, or admire it. You hold it to pay for some other product -- health care. It's a financing mechanism.

Since the government is expected to provide for health care, it has the power to choose how it finances health care.

The argument about forcing people to enter interstate commerce by forcing them to purchase something is brilliantly misleading.


Posted on: 4/1/2012 1:04 pm
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Anonymous
Account_DeletedAnonymous
Quote:
ncohen wrote: Since the government is expected to provide for health care, it has the power to choose how it finances health care.


Therein lies the rub. Why is government expected to provide healthcare in the first place and even if some people have that unrealistic expectation, why is forcing individual citizens to purchase something a Constitutional financing mechanism?

Posted on: 4/1/2012 1:57 pm
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Anonymous
Account_DeletedAnonymous
And many people want to poke fun at the examples that were made concerning products like broccoli and cars. I find nothing amusing about it. It would set the precedent that the government could force individual citizens to purchase any product that it deems influences interstate commerce or might have an impact on the economy. That's not a precedent that any American who values individual liberty should want to see set. Just because government claims that it would never, ever take this concept further in the future is unreliable and they shouldn't be trusted to keep their word later on, at the expense of liberty. They are abusing the intent of the Commerce Clause and making a power grab under it's guise.

Posted on: 4/1/2012 2:07 pm
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Account_Deleted
ncohen, I was wondering what part of the Constitution requires the fed's to provide health care?

Posted on: 4/1/2012 2:12 pm
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Anonymous
Account_DeletedAnonymous
“The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself.” - Benjamin Franklin

Posted on: 4/1/2012 3:55 pm
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Anonymous
Account_DeletedAnonymous

Posted on: 4/2/2012 9:08 am
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Account_Deleted
Counties Healthcare System
Germany Insurance Mandate
Belgium Insurance Mandate
Austria Insurance Mandate
Luxembourg Insurance Mandate
Greece Insurance Mandate
South Korea Insurance Mandate
Switzerland Insurance Mandate

Want to know what else they have in common?
You find them all in the top 25 in debt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

Posted on: 4/2/2012 9:56 am
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court

Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 12958
Quote:

Billhilly wrote:
Counties Healthcare System
Germany Insurance Mandate
Belgium Insurance Mandate
Austria Insurance Mandate
Luxembourg Insurance Mandate
Greece Insurance Mandate
South Korea Insurance Mandate
Switzerland Insurance Mandate

Want to know what else they have in common?
You find them all in the top 25 in debt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt


Actually, they all have significantly less debt than the US, which has two times more debt than the next country. Perhaps they are doing something right?

Posted on: 4/2/2012 10:51 am
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Anonymous
Account_DeletedAnonymous
The United States is many times the size of those countries as well. With a bigger population than any of them by a long shot. Plus, they don't have the additional costs of being relied on for security and military protection to the degree our nation is by many nations in the world. There are many factors to consider.

Germany, Belgium, Luxembourg, Austria, Greece, and Switzerland have been under the military protection of the United States through NATO for decades. Same with South Korea under the U.N. banner. That alone would seriously reduce their debt.

Posted on: 4/2/2012 10:58 am
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Webmaster
Joined:
2/11/2012 10:32 pm
From Seattle
Posts: 6752
Quote:

wvman75 wrote:
... Plus, they don't have the additional costs of being relied on for security and military protection to the degree our nation is by many nations in the world. ...


I would say that a little different. 'Plus, they didn't choose to take on the additional costs of being relied on for security and military protection...'. This is a choice the US made and I think we should rethink that choice. I don't think the US taxpayers owe it to the world to pay for their protection (or more often, enforcer) in gold and lives.

Posted on: 4/2/2012 11:04 am
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