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Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Grant Ave. Warrior
Joined:
12/15/2007 7:54 am
From Drexel Hill, PA
Posts: 1028
Quote:

LSUisComing wrote:
Quote:

GONZOeer wrote:
I hope Arkansas beats LSU. I could go for some chaos over the next few weeks.


Watch your mouth.

Seriously, though- as much as the BCS is maligned, it generally gets it right. When the smoke finally settles, the two best teams end up in the championship game. For those calling for a playoff, there are several problems with this.

1) To the people call for the top eight teams, you will still have chaos. Who decides who the top 8 teams are? You will still have a need for polls and voters and computer rankings. After all, who will decide between a 9-2 Oklahoma, an 9-2 Stanford and an 9-2 Virginia Tech for your last spot.

2) To the people that say every conference winner should go, that wouldn't be fair either. Which conferences? Are you going to tell me that the winner of the Mountain West or Conference USA should go to the playoffs ahead of an Alabama or Oklahoma or Oregon? No way. On what universe is that fair?

3) Finally, the best thing about college football is that the whole season is a playoff. It totally adds value to it. My team is LSU. Every game has me tuned in. We're 11-0 and two weeks from the championship game, but it could all go up in a puff of smoke with one bad week. Every week, I'm sitting on my couch, gnawing on my fingernails, praying we bring our A game. If I knew we could drop a few games, it wouldn't be nearly as fun.


I remember ten years ago a Nebraska team that didn't qualify for a conference championship playing for the mythical national championship.

I remember last year multiple undefeated teams and a fake championship because the second best team didn't make it to the championship game.

Posted on: 11/21/2011 7:01 pm
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Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
9/11/2009 4:06 pm
From Tampa, FL via Elkview, WV
Posts: 3482
Quote:

LSUisComing wrote:
Quote:

jbolt128 wrote:
16 team playoff

11 conference champs and 5 at larges.


Awful idea. College football does not equal college basketball.

First, nobody watches college basketball until March Madness because the regular season means nothing.

Second, there are over 300 colleges that play NCAA basketball. You have to have a broader, more inclusive tourney- especially since on any given night, #287 could beat a top 5 team. This happens far less in college football. The Alabamas, LSUs, and Oregons crush the Northeastern South Dakota Technical States of the world.

Finally, not that I would ever call for a playoff, but if there were one it should be very small- the top four at best. It wouldn't include Arkansas State or the winner of Conference USA or any garbage team like that.

At the end of the day, any playoff or BCS system should involve the best two (or four) teams in the nation, regardless of conference affiliation.


Then we disagree.

Voting should not determine a national championship. Nor should losing late in the season hurt a team more than losing early, a loss is a loss.

As for the regular season... I don't buy the school of thought that a playoff takes the importance away from the regular season. A football season is shorter than basketball thus the emphasis on the regular season would remain the same, just a slight shift in the reason behind the emphasis. Winning your conference becomes of the up most importance because there are only 5 at large spots. Thus, conference math ups become crucial to determining who gets to play for the national championship.

Posted on: 11/21/2011 7:08 pm
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Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Party Machine
Joined:
9/19/2011 12:04 pm
From Moundsville, Marshall County, WV
Posts: 631
SEC fans want to keep it as it is cause they have a sweet deal auto going to the NC every year.

Posted on: 11/21/2011 7:17 pm
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Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Suspected Punter
Joined:
9/10/2011 1:33 pm
Posts: 71

why do you never hear Presidents/Chancellors of NCAA Div II and/or Div III pissing and moaning about the problems of a playoff system? ex: Oh, we can't have our student/athletes missing class.....

Posted on: 11/21/2011 8:51 pm
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Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.

Joined:
7/27/2006 5:02 pm
From Alkol, Lincoln County
Posts: 24339
what we really need is to eliminate conferences. that won't happen, too much money involved.. but that's what needs to happen.

then, place all 124 teams(or 128 teams and cap that amount) into 14-16 member regions(8 regions total). --if a team wants to move up into the FCS, one team would move down. montana has to move up? well north texas or some other bad team not meeting competitive or attendance standards would move down.

each region would have 7-8 members in each division, and each region would hold a conference championship game.

start the season a week or so earlier. then a week after the region championship games are held, quarterfinals between regional champions that next weekend(current conference championship weekend).

then have semi finals the week or 2 weeks after that. place quarterfinalists(after they've lost in quarterfinals/no chance at national championship) in bowls(cotton, rose, sugar, orange, fiesta) with regional affiliation, place finalists in national championship. problem solved.

but it won't happen. it's too fair and people lose money.

Posted on: 11/21/2011 9:13 pm
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Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
11/7/2009 9:27 pm
From Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 4129
Quote:

Freddy wrote:

why do you never hear Presidents/Chancellors of NCAA Div II and/or Div III pissing and moaning about the problems of a playoff system? ex: Oh, we can't have our student/athletes missing class.....


Because some NCAA Division III schools like NYU, Chicago, Case Western, Carnegie Mellon and MIT are party schools. They are like Boise State (6 percent graduation rate I believe) without the smurf turf.

Posted on: 11/21/2011 9:28 pm
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Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Suspected Punter
Joined:
9/16/2011 8:55 am
Posts: 138
Quote:

jbolt128 wrote:
Quote:

LSUisComing wrote:
Quote:

jbolt128 wrote:
16 team playoff

11 conference champs and 5 at larges.


Awful idea. College football does not equal college basketball.

First, nobody watches college basketball until March Madness because the regular season means nothing.

Second, there are over 300 colleges that play NCAA basketball. You have to have a broader, more inclusive tourney- especially since on any given night, #287 could beat a top 5 team. This happens far less in college football. The Alabamas, LSUs, and Oregons crush the Northeastern South Dakota Technical States of the world.

Finally, not that I would ever call for a playoff, but if there were one it should be very small- the top four at best. It wouldn't include Arkansas State or the winner of Conference USA or any garbage team like that.

At the end of the day, any playoff or BCS system should involve the best two (or four) teams in the nation, regardless of conference affiliation.


Then we disagree.

Voting should not determine a national championship. Nor should losing late in the season hurt a team more than losing early, a loss is a loss.

As for the regular season... I don't buy the school of thought that a playoff takes the importance away from the regular season. A football season is shorter than basketball thus the emphasis on the regular season would remain the same, just a slight shift in the reason behind the emphasis. Winning your conference becomes of the up most importance because there are only 5 at large spots. Thus, conference math ups become crucial to determining who gets to play for the national championship.




Voting HAS to play a role in determining a national championship. After all, how else are you going to decide who gets into the playoffs? If you go with a top 4 or top 8 or something similar, who chooses those teams?

That brings us to the "win your conference and you're in" system, but that's not fair either. Why should the winner of Conference USA or the Big East (after you guys leave of course) get the same entry into the playoffs that the winner of the Big 12 or SEC gets?

Posted on: 11/21/2011 10:19 pm
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Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Anonymous
Account_DeletedAnonymous
Quote:
LSUis Coming wrote; Voting HAS to play a role in determining a national championship. After all, how else are you going to decide who gets into the playoffs? If you go with a top 4 or top 8 or something similar, who chooses those teams?


My point exactly on why a playoff system is meaningless and will not/ cannot be constructed in an anymore fair and equitable way than what we have now. It will still be a subjective system, vulnerable to the whims and predjudices of the same so called "experts". In a playoff system, there will have to be some form of selection and then "seeding", giving additional weight to those playing in what could be considered "power conferences". Don't even pretend that a fair shake will ever be given to the little guy or those who play a schedule not perceived to be strong enough. It will be more of the same horsecrap, with the only difference meaning even more money to the "haves" and to the detriment of the STUDENT athletes on the "have nots or wanna be's". Requiring more sacrifice of class time and still not getting to the goal set forth.

Posted on: 11/21/2011 10:38 pm
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Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
9/11/2009 4:06 pm
From Tampa, FL via Elkview, WV
Posts: 3482
Quote:

LSUisComing wrote:


Voting HAS to play a role in determining a national championship. After all, how else are you going to decide who gets into the playoffs? If you go with a top 4 or top 8 or something similar, who chooses those teams?

That brings us to the "win your conference and you're in" system, but that's not fair either. Why should the winner of Conference USA or the Big East (after you guys leave of course) get the same entry into the playoffs that the winner of the Big 12 or SEC gets?


If you go back and read my supposed system voting only determines the 5 at large spots and seeding.

With your elitist attitude toward college football then Boise State and TCU should have never been given chances to play in BCS bowls even though they won against a supposedly superior opponent.

Your attitude is a team is considered the better team based upon what conference they are from. Who is to say a team from the Conference USA, like Houston this year, couldn't beat an Oklahoma in the first round of the playoffs? Why should they be denied the opportunity?

Let the championship be settled on the field and not by preseason rankings and conference perception.

This is my opinion and I am sticking with it. We will just have to agree to disagree.

Posted on: 11/22/2011 12:17 am
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Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Suspected Punter
Joined:
9/16/2011 8:55 am
Posts: 138
What should also be mentioned is that the BCS format has been very kind to West Virginia and the BE in general. The guaranteed BCS game has placed some very suspect teams into premier bowls. Without that BCS tie in, I find it hard to imagine a two loss Cincinnati team (for example) making the Orange, Fiesta, Sugar or Rose Bowls.

Under the BCS system, the BE winner has something nice to play for at the end of the season. If it was thrown out, I couldn't imagine a 9-3 Rutgers or Louisville team even sniffing a New Years Eve bowl.

Posted on: 11/22/2011 12:22 am
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Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Party Machine
Joined:
9/19/2011 12:04 pm
From Moundsville, Marshall County, WV
Posts: 631
The two BCS bowls WVU has been to and won had records of 11-1 and 10-2 going in WVU earned those spots unlike whoever does this year and UCONN last year.

Posted on: 11/22/2011 12:31 am
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Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Suspected Punter
Joined:
9/16/2011 8:55 am
Posts: 138
Quote:

jbolt128 wrote:

If you go back and read my supposed system voting only determines the 5 at large spots and seeding.

With your elitist attitude toward college football then Boise State and TCU should have never been given chances to play in BCS bowls even though they won against a supposedly superior opponent.

Your attitude is a team is considered the better team based upon what conference they are from. Who is to say a team from the Conference USA, like Houston this year, couldn't beat an Oklahoma in the first round of the playoffs? Why should they be denied the opportunity?

Let the championship be settled on the field and not by preseason rankings and conference perception.

This is my opinion and I am sticking with it. We will just have to agree to disagree.


If you consider "elitist" being that you want the absolute best teams in the nation playing in the best bowls for all the marbles, then yes- I guess I'm elitist per your definition.

Absolutely Boise State and TCU do not belong playing BCS bowls. They play garbage teams all year and only have to get up for one game, which is their Super Bowl. They have six weeks to game plan while their coaches tell them how badly they are disrespected. They come out, fight hard, and sometimes get a win, but don't confuse that for being able to compete week in, week out. Case in point: Utah. These "BCS busters" joined a real conference this year and got their asses handed to them. If you put Boise State and TCU in the SEC or Big 12 or the BE, they would struggle to have a .500 record.

You want to see the Horizon League co-conference champs in a playoff? You can keep it. I want to see the top 10 schools, regardless of conference affiliation, play in the 5 BCS Bowls, with the top two playing in the National Championship.

Posted on: 11/22/2011 12:31 am
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Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Suspected Punter
Joined:
9/16/2011 8:55 am
Posts: 138
Quote:

MarshallCo wrote:
The two BCS bowls WVU has been to and won had records of 11-1 and 10-2 going in WVU earned those spots unlike whoever does this year and UCONN last year.


I agree. I generally hold WVU out of the negative spotlight that I view the rest of the BE is in because a) they are leaving it and b) they are a much better, more established program with more to offer than the rest of the BE.

I think in 3-5 seasons, most of the posters will agree that doling out BCS bowls as appeasement to lesser quality schools is not good for the football fan or fair to the players that play it.

Posted on: 11/22/2011 12:34 am
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Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Party Machine
Joined:
9/19/2011 12:04 pm
From Moundsville, Marshall County, WV
Posts: 631
Just saying the BCS hasn't been exactly kind to wvu those bowls were earned if PITT would have went down in 07 and we played ohio state in the NC with a record of 11-1 I would have agreed the BCS has been kind to us but everything WVU has won they have earned.

Posted on: 11/22/2011 12:37 am
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Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Suspected Punter
Joined:
9/16/2011 8:55 am
Posts: 138
Quote:

MarshallCo wrote:
Just saying the BCS hasn't been exactly kind to wvu those bowls were earned if PITT would have went down in 07 and we played ohio state in the NC with a record of 11-1 I would have agreed the BCS has been kind to us but everything WVU has won they have earned.


I agree. No argument there.

Posted on: 11/22/2011 12:40 am
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Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Anonymous
Account_DeletedAnonymous
As utterly dysfunctional as the bcs has been,I would've actually trusted it for a simple final four-letting all the other Rose Gator Meineke Emerald Nut./whatever Bowls still be what they've always been.

Too late now.

Posted on: 11/22/2011 12:52 am
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Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
9/11/2009 4:06 pm
From Tampa, FL via Elkview, WV
Posts: 3482
Quote:

LSUisComing wrote:


Quote:

Absolutely Boise State and TCU do not belong playing BCS bowls. They play garbage teams all year and only have to get up for one game, which is their Super Bowl. They have six weeks to game plan while their coaches tell them how badly they are disrespected. They come out, fight hard, and sometimes get a win, but don't confuse that for being able to compete week in, week out. Case in point: Utah. These "BCS busters" joined a real conference this year and got their asses handed to them. If you put Boise State and TCU in the SEC or Big 12 or the BE, they would struggle to have a .500 record.


In a playoff system this debate would be settled. If a Boise State, TCU, or Houston gets beat in the first round then they weren't good enough. If they win their first round game but lose their second, then you can say they got up for the one game but couldn't handle playing two games like that in a row. But, if they made it to the championship, then they would have earned it.

Quote:

You want to see the Horizon League co-conference champs in a playoff? You can keep it. I want to see the top 10 schools, regardless of conference affiliation, play in the 5 BCS Bowls, with the top two playing in the National Championship.


As for seeing the top 10 schools. In the format I suggested the top 10 - 12 teams make the playoffs every year, whether it be by winning their conference or making one of the 5 at large spots.

In the playoff format I suggested, any team that wins the championship earned it on the field.

Posted on: 11/22/2011 1:02 am
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Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Here for the Beer
Joined:
7/23/2008 10:56 am
From Baguio City, Philippines
Posts: 437
Well anyone with a brain could see that a play-off system would kill schools like West Virginia's chance at a national championship!

Posted on: 11/22/2011 1:29 am
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Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
5/28/2008 9:04 pm
From Robertsdale,Al via parkersburg
Posts: 6874
and those with and without brain cells can see that you`re a dork

Posted on: 11/22/2011 2:35 am
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Re: BCS is BS, This is the time for a playoff system.
Suspected Punter
Joined:
9/16/2011 8:55 am
Posts: 138
Quote:

jbolt128 wrote:

In a playoff system this debate would be settled. If a Boise State, TCU, or Houston gets beat in the first round then they weren't good enough. If they win their first round game but lose their second, then you can say they got up for the one game but couldn't handle playing two games like that in a row. But, if they made it to the championship, then they would have earned it.


In the playoff format I suggested, any team that wins the championship earned it on the field.


I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I am of the opinion that Boise State, TCU, or Houston isn't as good as the fourth best team in the Big 10, Big 12 or SEC. I wouldn't give any of those teams a seat at the table in a playoff.

You mention that all that would be settled on the field, but if I had an 8 team playoff, they wouldn't be in it. My 8 this year would be (in no particular order):

-LSU
-Alabama
-Oklahoma State
-Oklahoma
-Oregon
-Stanford
-Arkansas
-Clemson/Va Tech (whoever wins between the two)

And a 16 team playoff would completely devalue the regular season (if an 8 team playoff wouldn't do that already).

As for the reason why I don't think LSU should have to play a Houston or TCU or Boise in a playoff game, it wouldn't be fair because of their contrasting schedules. LSU, by the end of the season, will have played 9 ranked teams. Every week has been a battle against the nation's finest teams. Meanwhile, Houston has been playing teams like Tulane, San Diego State and Idaho State. Hell, Boise beat one ranked team in the first game of the year and people have used that to proclaim them football gods.

So what is LSU's reward after playing the most difficult schedule in college football? Now they have to win a 16 team tournament in which anything can happen.

Posted on: 11/22/2011 10:37 am
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