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Re: PRO-Choice or not?
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
12/7/2009 8:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 9974
These things these people say are just so absurd. I really wonder where they get this stuff and why they don't substantiate it before they post on a public forum about it.

EDIT: I am waiting for the "He said it in the Niagara Falls area during summer break. It was a local reporter who heard it, but you wouldn't know them."

Posted on: 2/1/2012 10:55 am
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Re: PRO-Choice or not?
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
9/25/2011 5:33 pm
From Orlando
Posts: 4021


HAHAHAHA, Really guys, this is just a issue that people use to detract from the government robing you blind.

If your Pro Choice, get a abortion...

If your Pro Life , don't get a abortion

Show the same love the lord did, and give people the freedom to decide for them self to follow christian law.

John 7:17
"If anyone chooses to do God's will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own."

2 Cor. 9:7
"Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver."

Posted on: 2/1/2012 12:06 pm
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Re: PRO-Choice or not?
Party Machine
Joined:
9/5/2011 10:55 am
Posts: 748
Eers88, here is the video. It's of a very old woman and her doctor decided to try to give her a pacemaker. It's essentially about rationing care since there won't be enough money and care for everyone. He says that it should be a choice between a doctor and patient, however, once big government gets involved (imagine the DMV doing health coverage), the government tells the doctor what to do, what tests to give and so on. See what you think. This is an strange case and something to think about if you have an older parent.

Youtube video

Posted on: 2/1/2012 7:10 pm
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Re: PRO-Choice or not?
Anonymous
Account_DeletedAnonymous
wvmtneer, Eers88, and wvtarheel, I appreciate the reference and will gladly take a look at it. Freakanomics, huh? Sounds interesting.

Posted on: 2/1/2012 8:08 pm
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Re: PRO-Choice or not?
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
12/7/2009 8:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 9974
Virginia Senate passes bill requiring women to have an ultrasound before having an abortion and requires doctor to note whether she chooses to listen and/or look at it or not.

Article

Posted on: 2/2/2012 1:04 am
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Re: PRO-Choice or not?
Anonymous
Account_DeletedAnonymous
What about in the case of rape or incest? I can't see putting someone in that situation through the torment of viewing it. Is there an exemption for those who find themselves in that particular situation?

I never saw anything in the link you provided that referenced it. Maybe I missed it. I had a few this evening. Business.

Posted on: 2/2/2012 1:12 am
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Re: PRO-Choice or not?
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
12/7/2009 8:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 9974
Quote:

92WVUGrad wrote:
Eers88, here is the video. It's of a very old woman and her doctor decided to try to give her a pacemaker. It's essentially about rationing care since there won't be enough money and care for everyone. He says that it should be a choice between a doctor and patient, however, once big government gets involved (imagine the DMV doing health coverage), the government tells the doctor what to do, what tests to give and so on. See what you think. This is an strange case and something to think about if you have an older parent.

Youtube video


First, the Health Care Reform Act does NOT involve the government telling doctors how to treat patients. (BTW - If you want to see a law where the government is telling doctors "what to do, what tests to give and so on" then you should look at the article I posted about the abortion bill in Virginia, which requires a doctor to perform an unnecessary ultrasound, and includes specific requirements as to how it is to be administered and what the doctor must inform the patient, before performing an abortion. I wonder if the folks who claim the HCR Act calls for government intrusion into the doctor-patient relationship will oppose this measure for that same reason). The HCR Act does not bring the government into your actual healthcare. It should have been called the Health Care Insurance Reform Act, because it reforms healthcare insurance, not healthcare.

This video is very different than what you described in your earlier post. Obama did not prescribe a pill to the mother who needed an operation. What he is saying is that under the current system patients don't always get to make decisions about their care because the deciding factor is the cost of the treatment. If the patient cannot afford his or her portion of the cost of the care, then the provider won't provide the treatment. Even worse, when an insurance company doesn't think the treatment is medically necessary, despite the opinion of the treating physician who ordered the treatment, then the care won't be covered, which often means that the treatment will not be given because the patient cannot afford to pay out-of-pocket. I don't think that putting treatment decisions in the hands of an insurance company that has a monetary interest in not paying for the healthcare is working. Also, the appeals process required to fight the decision is so lengthy that often times the patient dies before having a chance to have the insurance company's decision reversed. Whether you want to call it rationed care or some other name, he is simply pointing out that the current system has this flaw.

Posted on: 2/2/2012 1:26 am
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Re: PRO-Choice or not?
Anonymous
Account_DeletedAnonymous
I guess it all depends on what the definition of necessary is.

Posted on: 2/2/2012 1:33 am
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Re: PRO-Choice or not?
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
12/7/2009 8:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 9974
Why do you need an ultrasound to perform an abortion?

Posted on: 2/2/2012 1:35 am
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Re: PRO-Choice or not?
Anonymous
Account_DeletedAnonymous
Safety and prudence? I do have a problem with showing an ultra-sound to a patient that doesn't wish to view it. Clear? Individual liberty?

Posted on: 2/2/2012 1:37 am
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Re: PRO-Choice or not?
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
12/7/2009 8:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 9974
But if the doctor does not order the ultrasound, it is not medically necessary by definition. The point is that the doctor should decide what is best for the patient, not the government. You and I can sit here and speculate all night long about it, but neither one of us is qualified to make that call either in the abstract or for an actual patient. In cases where the doctor orders an ultrasound, then it is necessary. In cases where the doctor does not, then it is not medically necessary, yet the government still requires the healthcare procedure to be performed. This is obviously government intrusion into the doctor-patient relationship, and is simply causing additional and unnecessary health care costs. This is the evil that people were screaming about - GOVERNMENT MANDATED HEALTHCARE TREATMENT.

EDIT: You have a problem with a requirement that the patient be shown the ultrasound, but not with the requirement that the patient undergo the ultrasound? Isn't actually undergoing the treatment the actual invasion?

Posted on: 2/2/2012 2:02 am
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Re: PRO-Choice or not?
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
5/28/2008 10:04 pm
From Robertsdale,Al via parkersburg
Posts: 5906
Dont they sell morning after pills over the counter?

Posted on: 2/2/2012 4:41 am
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Re: PRO-Choice or not?
Here for the Beer
Joined:
7/12/2006 6:06 pm
From North Carolina
Posts: 385
Quote:

POWERSWVU83 wrote:
I'm pro-choice & my question for pro-life people are what should be doen when rape or incest happens to a young female?
Does God turn a blinde eye to the female who was raped as a young teenager by her uncle & she has the choice to have the abortion, did she sin?


Question #1) For the people who actually have to make this choice, my heart goes out to them. I can't say what someone else should do in that situation, and I am thankful I never had to make that choice or help someone make that choice. I pray I never do.

Question #2) God doesn't turn a blind eye to anyone, neither in judgment or in grace. God gave us free will, to make our own choices. The person who commits the rape made that choice, God didn't interfere. The person who uses abortion as birth control for the 3rd and 4th time made that choice also, and God doesn't interfere. If the young teenager raped by her uncle makes the choice to have an abortion, that is her choice. She, like all of us, will stand in judgment someday and give an account for her life. In that moment, it will be between her and God. It's not for me to say what God will do, or should do.

Posted on: 2/2/2012 8:32 am
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Re: PRO-Choice or not?

Joined:
4/9/2008 1:11 pm
From Wilderness, VA via Hacker Valley, WV
Posts: 11688
BigDaddy...spoken like a true Christian.

I wish more "christians" shared your views.

Posted on: 2/2/2012 8:46 am
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Re: PRO-Choice or not?
Anonymous
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Posted on: 2/2/2012 9:14 am
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Re: PRO-Choice or not?
Party Machine
Joined:
9/5/2011 10:55 am
Posts: 748
Question. If a state requires someone to have an ultra sound before an abortion and people are complaining about it as a violation, then how can the federal government force its citizens to buy health insurance?

I'm more of a non-practicing catholic caught between an libertarian and a conservative. I'm for government to get out of anything that the private sector can do.

Posted on: 2/2/2012 4:19 pm
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Re: PRO-Choice or not?
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
12/7/2009 8:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 9974
Quote:

92WVUGrad wrote:
Question. If a state requires someone to have an ultra sound before an abortion and people are complaining about it as a violation, then how can the federal government force its citizens to buy health insurance?

I'm more of a non-practicing catholic caught between an libertarian and a conservative. I'm for government to get out of anything that the private sector can do.


I don't understand the question. How are forcing a person to undergo a medical procedure compare to mandating that people maintain health insurance?

Posted on: 2/5/2012 1:12 am
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Re: PRO-Choice or not?
Anonymous
Account_DeletedAnonymous
It's the government forcing a decision on you that you may want to make for yourself? Just a guess. Why do people trust the government to know best in one case and distrust them on the other?

Posted on: 2/5/2012 9:38 am
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Re: PRO-Choice or not?
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
12/7/2009 8:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 9974
People oppose the mandatory ultrasound because the government is intruding into someone's personal decisions regarding their healthcare treatment, which should be between the patient and doctor. Mandatory healthcare insurance does not intrude on the doctor-patient relationship in that fashion. I am not advocating for mandatory healthcare insurance; it is just that the complaint people have with the mandatory ultrasound is not present with mandatory healthcare insurance. Apples and oranges.

Posted on: 2/5/2012 9:51 am
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Re: PRO-Choice or not?
Anonymous
Account_DeletedAnonymous
I see your point. I don't agree with the government being able to force either.

Posted on: 2/5/2012 11:00 am
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