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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
7/29/2008 4:48 pm
From Deadwood, Lakota Territory
Posts: 8212
Also, the 2012 elections will shift the balance of power in the Senate and ObumaCare will be repealed by Congress.

Sorry Cayce!

PS - Are you 12 years old??? Or younger???

Posted on: 3/28/2012 9:46 pm
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Pitt Hater
Joined:
9/20/2009 2:56 pm
From austin, tx
Posts: 1640
The Affordable Health Care Act is clearly constitutional. Health care is 1/7 of the economy and the Fed. Govt. has the power to regulate Interstate Commerce. Linda Greenhouse, formerly the New York Times Supreme Ct reporter and now a prof a Yale, said all the good arguments were in favor.
The Fed. Govt. clearly has the power to have a single-payer system -- Medicare for everyone. So, they should have the power to have a system with less government intrusion -- people are permitted to find private plans. if they can't, they have to enter the government plan.

"rushed through" and overwhelming public opposition:

The Act got 60 votes in the Senate. That shows some suipport. Similar plans have been proposed by Eisenhower, Nixon, and Romney (and passed by Romney).

Can the Fed. Govt. require everyone to buy a car? Who knows, but they can certainly tax everyone and use the proceeds to bail out the auto industry.

Posted on: 3/28/2012 10:42 pm
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Anonymous
Account_DeletedAnonymous
Quote:
ncohen wrote: Can the Fed. Govt. require everyone to buy a car? Who knows, but they can certainly tax everyone and use the proceeds to bail out the auto industry.


Says who? Can you cite where the constitutionality of the {auto} bailouts were ever litigated to the Supreme Court?

EDIT: It benefited the union workers (who have a political stake),and who were pretty much concentrated in one state, although it was an industry that America had dominated in the past. Did the other 49 states or other groups litigate the constitutional merits of what the government was doing? Did the federal government buy off the other states with later "stimulus" money? Selling many taxpayers out for a perceived common good?

You can almost follow the trail of money used as an instrument of coercion.

Good money after bad.

Posted on: 3/28/2012 11:20 pm
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Here for the Beer
Joined:
3/7/2008 2:18 pm
From Chester, WV
Posts: 380
This is going to be interesting to see how the constitutionality is interpreted. My question has always been, who here thinks this bill is about healthcare and who thinks this is power grab meant to fundamentally transform this country?

Posted on: 3/29/2012 8:00 am
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
7/29/2008 4:48 pm
From Deadwood, Lakota Territory
Posts: 8212
Quote:

wvman75 wrote:
Quote:
ncohen wrote: Can the Fed. Govt. require everyone to buy a car? Who knows, but they can certainly tax everyone and use the proceeds to bail out the auto industry.


Says who? Can you cite where the constitutionality of the {auto} bailouts were ever litigated to the Supreme Court?

EDIT: It benefited the union workers (who have a political stake),and who were pretty much concentrated in one state, although it was an industry that America had dominated in the past. Did the other 49 states or other groups litigate the constitutional merits of what the government was doing? Did the federal government buy off the other states with later "stimulus" money? Selling many taxpayers out for a perceived common good?

You can almost follow the trail of money used as an instrument of coercion.

Good money after bad.


Not to mention the RIGHTS of the the Bond holders that got SCREWED!!!

Posted on: 3/29/2012 10:47 am
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
7/29/2008 4:48 pm
From Deadwood, Lakota Territory
Posts: 8212
Quote:

ncohen wrote:
The Affordable Health Care Act is clearly constitutional. Health care is 1/7 of the economy and the Fed. Govt. has the power to regulate Interstate Commerce. Linda Greenhouse, formerly the New York Times Supreme Ct reporter and now a prof a Yale, said all the good arguments were in favor.
The Fed. Govt. clearly has the power to have a single-payer system -- Medicare for everyone. So, they should have the power to have a system with less government intrusion -- people are permitted to find private plans. if they can't, they have to enter the government plan.

"rushed through" and overwhelming public opposition:

The Act got 60 votes in the Senate. That shows some suipport. Similar plans have been proposed by Eisenhower, Nixon, and Romney (and passed by Romney).

Can the Fed. Govt. require everyone to buy a car? Who knows, but they can certainly tax everyone and use the proceeds to bail out the auto industry.



The above post should appear in an article entitled ...

How to Fail Your Constitional Law Class.

Posted on: 3/29/2012 10:48 am
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
7/29/2008 4:48 pm
From Deadwood, Lakota Territory
Posts: 8212
PS - your use of the phrase "interstate" commerce is actually incorrect.

This is an example of how the Courts have expanded the Commerce Clause WAY BEYOND its original intent.

Read Article 1, Section 8.

It actually says ... "To regulate Commerce ... AMONG the several states."

It DOES NOT say "interstate" commerce. BIG DIFFERENCE.

http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec8.html




Posted on: 3/29/2012 10:53 am
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court

Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 12713
What do you think "interstate" means?

Posted on: 3/29/2012 11:11 am
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
7/20/2008 1:23 pm
From Just barely outside the Beltway.
Posts: 7347
Interesting take.

"Republican pollster Whit Ayres summed up the political consequences if the court moves to overturn Obama’s law in part or in whole: “If the Court strikes down just the individual mandate, but leaves the rest of an increasingly unstable and unworkable structure, then the GOP has an ‘I told you so’ moment and an even greater argument for repeal. If the Court strikes down the whole law, then the GOP has a huge ‘I told you so moment,’ but loses one of several large targets for the fall campaign. There are plenty of other targets remaining (jobs, stimulus, fiscal irresponsibility), but it loses a big one.”"

Posted on: 3/29/2012 12:24 pm
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
12/15/2007 1:43 pm
From Raleigh, NC (St. Marys, WV)
Posts: 3765
Quote:

sg44gold wrote:
Are you 12 years old??? Or younger???


Questions like that will get you a sit down with Chris Hanson.

Posted on: 3/29/2012 2:30 pm
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
7/29/2008 4:48 pm
From Deadwood, Lakota Territory
Posts: 8212
Quote:

Eers88 wrote:
What do you think "interstate" means?


If I have to explain the difference to you between "among the several states" and "interstate" commerce, then your indoctrination is complete.

PS - there was a time when states acted independently and the federal government was not a nanny state.

Posted on: 3/29/2012 3:35 pm
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
7/29/2008 4:48 pm
From Deadwood, Lakota Territory
Posts: 8212
Quote:

wvtarheel wrote:
Quote:

sg44gold wrote:
Are you 12 years old??? Or younger???


Questions like that will get you a sit down with Chris Hanson.


Ha! Ha!

And I was also going to ask him if he needed a new box of Crayolas!

Posted on: 3/29/2012 3:36 pm
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Webmaster
Joined:
2/11/2012 10:32 pm
From Seattle
Posts: 6752
Eers88, I'm going to have to put you on retainer if I keep asking legal questions but....how the hell does this severability question work? I don't get how the court can pick and choose pieces of a law to retain and which to get rid of. Once they strike down a portion of the law that law is no longer what was passed by congress so wouldn't the whole thing *have* to be struck down? Otherwise, it's the court writing legislation from the bench. In this case, for example, without the mandate the rest of the law doesn't work. I'm sure there are lots of legislators that voted for it but wouldn't have done so without the mandate. What am I missing?

Posted on: 3/29/2012 4:12 pm
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Pitt Hater
Joined:
9/20/2009 2:56 pm
From austin, tx
Posts: 1640
Quote:

sg44gold wrote:

ncohen wrote:


The above post should appear in an article entitled ...

How to Fail Your Constitional Law Class.


I was top 3rd at harvard law school. What are your con law credentials?

Posted on: 3/29/2012 8:25 pm
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
2/18/2009 5:48 pm
Posts: 3411
Quote:

ncohen wrote:
Quote:

sg44gold wrote:

ncohen wrote:


The above post should appear in an article entitled ...

How to Fail Your Constitional Law Class.


I was top 3rd at harvard law school. What are your con law credentials?

Math is hard. Truth, too. Bet you voted for the top 90% Don't Mess with Joe Biden!
Quote:
A few days later, Biden's plagiarism incident in law school came to public light. It was also revealed that when earlier questioned by a New Hampshire resident about his grades in law school, Biden had falsely stated that he had graduated in the "top half" of his class, that he had attended law school on a full scholarship, and that he had received three degrees in college. He had in fact earned a single B.A. with a double major in history and political science, had received a half scholarship to law school based on financial need with some additional assistance based in part upon academics, and had graduated 76th of 85 in his law school class.

Posted on: 3/29/2012 8:39 pm
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Webmaster
Joined:
2/11/2012 10:32 pm
From Seattle
Posts: 6752
Is that implying that ncohen did not graduate in the top 3rd in law school? Or just a completely random out of context attack on Biden? Or both?

Posted on: 3/29/2012 9:07 pm
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
2/18/2009 5:48 pm
Posts: 3411
stanleywvu:
Are your questions cumulative, exclusive, or contradictory?

Posted on: 3/29/2012 9:18 pm
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
WMITC
Joined:
1/20/2006 11:13 am
From Eastern Panhandle, WV
Posts: 3915
Quote:

stanleywvu wrote:
Eers88, I'm going to have to put you on retainer if I keep asking legal questions but....how the hell does this severability question work? I don't get how the court can pick and choose pieces of a law to retain and which to get rid of. Once they strike down a portion of the law that law is no longer what was passed by congress so wouldn't the whole thing *have* to be struck down? Otherwise, it's the court writing legislation from the bench. In this case, for example, without the mandate the rest of the law doesn't work. I'm sure there are lots of legislators that voted for it but wouldn't have done so without the mandate. What am I missing?


I think that's probably going to be the key issue. It's certainly the focus much of the line of questioning in oral argument the other day. I think if you asked the justices about the bill as a whole, 4 would say keep the whole thing, 3 would say scrap the whole thing, and Kennedy and Roberts (who sounded surprisingly more supportive of the law than many expected) are torn on the mandate portion and whether it's possible/necessary to scrap only that portion of the law.

I personally don't understand the vitriol for 90% of the law from the right. Much of the plan closely mirrors Republican ideas from as recently as the 90's (or in Mitt Romney's case, the 2000's.)

I mean, can anyone really muster an argument for why an insurance company should be allowed to prevent a kid with asthma to be able to get health insurance because it's a pre-existing condition? They used to do it left and right. They can't anymore because of "Obamacare." Why is that a bad thing?

Posted on: 3/29/2012 9:21 pm
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Webmaster
Joined:
2/11/2012 10:32 pm
From Seattle
Posts: 6752
Quote:

chaswv wrote:
stanleywvu:
Are your questions cumulative, exclusive, or contradictory?


i think the question is pretty clear. Just curious at your point.

Posted on: 3/29/2012 9:23 pm
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Re: Obamacare goes to the Supreme Court
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
2/18/2009 5:48 pm
Posts: 3411
The answer to your question is: "yes", "no" and "neither." Your question is that clear.

Posted on: 3/29/2012 9:25 pm
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