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Roundup from the same company that brought you Agent Orange
Pitt Hater
Joined:
7/21/2008 9:57 pm
From North Central, WV
Posts: 1759
And GMO



California to list glyphosate as cancer-causing; Monsanto vows fight
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN19H2K1

Posted on: 6/26 9:02 pm
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Re: Roundup from the same company that brought you Agent Orange
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
8/2/2010 10:50 am
From Canonsburg, PA
Posts: 4646
Quote:

EERY wrote:
And GMO



California to list glyphosate as cancer-causing; Monsanto vows fight
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN19H2K1


As they should. Glyphosate has NEVER been proven to have any causation to cancer. At best, there has been a probable cause before but that was moved back to no cause. This is a case of activism going over the top.

The same organization that stated that it is a "probable" cancer causer also states that daily intake of Glyphosate of UP TO 2,000 mg/kg to be deemed safe. That means that the average 160 pound person can consume 5.12 ounces of Glyphosate DAILY!!!! So as long as you don't down an energy drink size glass of Glyphosate you should be OK.

A friend posted a list of foods that were deemed to have too much glyphosate in them even though the numbers were 5.6 parts per billion of glyphosate. I told her that the average person that walked through the community park then took off their shoes and ate a piece of bread probably consumed more glyphosate than in these foods. If you cared about food safety she would have known that consuming these foods themselves are about 4 orders of magnitude more dangerous than consuming the glyphosate. The food items were goldfish, corn chips, etc.

Posted on: 6/29 12:32 pm
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Re: Roundup from the same company that brought you Agent Orange
Pitt Hater
Joined:
7/21/2008 9:57 pm
From North Central, WV
Posts: 1759
"The many dangers of Roundup

In May of 2015, the World Health Organization (WHO) classified glyphosate as “probably carcinogenic to humans.” They based that classification largely on animal studies that showed that glyphosate caused tumor growth or higher incidence of cancer. They also talked about conflicting human evidence: one large-scale study found that glyphosate increases risk of cancer, while another similar study found it doesn’t.[2][3] The WHO investigation also found that glyphosate is probably genotoxic (it causes mutations in DNA) and increases oxidative stress, which triggers inflammation and speeds up aging.

Monsanto (the biggest manufacturer of glyphosate in the world) claimed that the WHO cherry-picked research, ignoring at least a dozen studies showing glyphosate to be non-genotoxic and not carcinogenic…but it came out that all of those studies were funded by either Monsanto or another company in the pesticide business.https://www.nature.com/news/widely-use ... -linked-to-cancer-1.17181

Glyphosate also mimics estrogen, which could explain why it causes human breast cancer cells to grow in vitro.[4]

Then there’s glyphosate vs. Roundup. Glyphosate was not directly toxic to mitochondria in a study, but Roundup was.[5][6] And while glyphosate alone is toxic to human placental cells, Roundup does significantly more damage to them.[7]

That begs a good question: all these studies are looking at glyphosate in isolation, but the vast majority of pesticide-treated crops are sprayed with Roundup. What else is in Roundup that hasn’t been studied?

Leaked emails and dirty politics

At least two other compounds in Roundup – nitrosoglyphosate (NNG) and 1,4-dioxane – are probable carcinogens.[8] It appears that Monsanto knew these are toxic and tried to hide their toxicity from the EPA.[9] It came out when the company was sued and had to produce internal emails in court, including the one below:(Email available in link)

Another group of emails revealed that Monsanto’s former researcher, Dr. James Parry, found glyphosate to be genotoxic. When he presented his results, Monsanto’s execs got rid of him, noting that the priority was to “find/develop someone who is comfortable with the genetox profile of glyphosate/Roundup and who can be influential with regulators and Scientific Outreach operations when genetox issues arise

Link to full blog post
https://blog.bulletproof.com/glyphosat ... ganic-really-does-matter/




Posted on: 6/29 3:29 pm
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Re: Roundup from the same company that brought you Agent Orange
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
8/2/2010 10:50 am
From Canonsburg, PA
Posts: 4646
Quote:

EERY wrote:
"The many dangers of Roundup

In May of 2015, the World Health Organization (WHO) classified glyphosate as “probably carcinogenic to humans.” They based that classification largely on animal studies that showed that glyphosate caused tumor growth or higher incidence of cancer. They also talked about conflicting human evidence: one large-scale study found that glyphosate increases risk of cancer, while another similar study found it doesn’t.[2][3] The WHO investigation also found that glyphosate is probably genotoxic (it causes mutations in DNA) and increases oxidative stress, which triggers inflammation and speeds up aging.

Monsanto (the biggest manufacturer of glyphosate in the world) claimed that the WHO cherry-picked research, ignoring at least a dozen studies showing glyphosate to be non-genotoxic and not carcinogenic…but it came out that all of those studies were funded by either Monsanto or another company in the pesticide business.https://www.nature.com/news/widely-use ... -linked-to-cancer-1.17181

Glyphosate also mimics estrogen, which could explain why it causes human breast cancer cells to grow in vitro.[4]

Then there’s glyphosate vs. Roundup. Glyphosate was not directly toxic to mitochondria in a study, but Roundup was.[5][6] And while glyphosate alone is toxic to human placental cells, Roundup does significantly more damage to them.[7]

That begs a good question: all these studies are looking at glyphosate in isolation, but the vast majority of pesticide-treated crops are sprayed with Roundup. What else is in Roundup that hasn’t been studied?

Leaked emails and dirty politics

At least two other compounds in Roundup – nitrosoglyphosate (NNG) and 1,4-dioxane – are probable carcinogens.[8] It appears that Monsanto knew these are toxic and tried to hide their toxicity from the EPA.[9] It came out when the company was sued and had to produce internal emails in court, including the one below:(Email available in link)

Another group of emails revealed that Monsanto’s former researcher, Dr. James Parry, found glyphosate to be genotoxic. When he presented his results, Monsanto’s execs got rid of him, noting that the priority was to “find/develop someone who is comfortable with the genetox profile of glyphosate/Roundup and who can be influential with regulators and Scientific Outreach operations when genetox issues arise

Link to full blog post
https://blog.bulletproof.com/glyphosat ... ganic-really-does-matter/





1. Glyphosate is not a pesticide. It is an herbicide. This may seem irrelevant but the fact is that killing plants and killing animals are quite different.
2. Glyphosate is indeed toxic. It says so on the bottle. I would suggest that Monsanto freely admits that. With that being said as I stated above the WHO 2,000mg/kg taken ORALLY is safe. That is 5.12 ounces per 160 pounds. That is a HELL of a lot of glyphosate DAILY!

Here is the link to the information published May of 2016.

http://www.who.int/foodsafety/jmprsummary2016.pdf?ua=1

For those that don't want to read through it here is the relevant part.

Quote:
Glyphosate has been extensively tested for genotoxic effects using a variety of tests in a wide range of organisms. The overall weight of evidence indicates that administration of glyphosate and its formulation products at doses as high as 2000 mg/kg body weight by the oral route, the route most relevant to human dietary exposure, was not associated with genotoxic effects in an overwhelming majority of studies conducted in mammals, a model considered to be appropriate for assessing genotoxic risks to humans. The Meeting concluded that glyphosate is unlikely to be genotoxic at anticipated dietary exposures. Several carcinogenicity studies in mice and rats are available. The Meeting concluded that glyphosate is not carcinogenic in rats but could not exclude the possibility that it is carcinogenic in mice at very high doses. In view of the absence of carcinogenic potential in rodents at human-relevant doses and the absence of genotoxicity by the oral route in mammals, and considering the epidemiological evidence from occupational exposures, the Meeting concluded that glyphosate is unlikely to pose a carcinogenic risk to humans from exposure through the diet.


3. Glyphosate had to be fed in HUGE amounts to have any issue of health effects. The problem you bring up is significantly important to farm workers. I have no problem with that. People who handle glyphosate or ANY herbicide or pesticide should be utilizing safety equipment that would limit exposure to the product. The fact is that the issue here has little to do with that. They are linking this listing to our food supply and this is just ridiculous. This topic is being used by the organic goof balls to try to produce a propaganda attack against our food supply.

There are a number of serious problems with our food supply that needs to be addressed. We need to focus our limited resources to those things that are real problems in the food supply. Without glyphosate and without GMOs which are glyphosate tolerant we can not feed the number of people this world needs to have fed. I think a completely negligible possibility of cancer in mice is worth thousands or millions being kept alive.



Posted on: 6/29 5:49 pm
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Re: Roundup from the same company that brought you Agent Orange
Pitt Hater
Joined:
7/21/2008 9:57 pm
From North Central, WV
Posts: 1759
Well I still am a concerned person. I'm not sold on the story that I'd have to drink a glass of glyphosate daily to be harmed. There's evidence that glyphosate is now present in a large portion of our waterways and in our foods. Granted in most areas glyphosate is used only seasonally, therefore it would only be in our streams limited amount of time. The chemical is obviously toxic, and the majority of us are now taking it in on a daily basis. At this point we have no idea of what a long term effect products like round up will have on our population.

One thing I do know for sure is that Monsanto spends a lot of money fighting any bad publicity there products might come under. They also pump a ton of money into politics, and not just in the US. They fought tooth and nail over the GMO food labeling. I'm sure they have their fingers in as many studies and reports about glyphosate as they can. I would conjecture that they pay off anyone they can that might cause them troubles.

I know I'm just considered to be a conspiracy theorist on here. Though the majority of Monsanto's actions aren't of a company that prides themselves on being above bored and honest. Perhaps that's why they hitched their financial wagon to Hillary Clinton this past election.

Posted on: 6/29 11:00 pm
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Re: Roundup from the same company that brought you Agent Orange
Pitt Hater
Joined:
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From North Central, WV
Posts: 1759
That wasn't me calling it a pesticide. I copied and pasted from the blog in that post.

Posted on: 6/29 11:01 pm
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Re: Roundup from the same company that brought you Agent Orange
Pitt Hater
Joined:
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From North Central, WV
Posts: 1759
What's crazy to me is that my wife and I quit using roundup, and started using a mixture of dawn, salt, and vinegar. It is just as affective and not toxic at all.

Posted on: 6/29 11:04 pm
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Re: Roundup from the same company that brought you Agent Orange

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From Wilderness, VA via Hacker Valley, WV
Posts: 14445
Yea, because companies have NEVER tried to hide or cover up damage their products and byproducts have caused.

Posted on: 6/30 7:33 am
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Re: Roundup from the same company that brought you Agent Orange
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
8/2/2010 10:50 am
From Canonsburg, PA
Posts: 4646
Quote:

EERY wrote:
What's crazy to me is that my wife and I quit using roundup, and started using a mixture of dawn, salt, and vinegar. It is just as affective and not toxic at all.


Damn! Do you care at all about the environment?

https://forcechange.com/56884/remove-t ... cals-from-dawn-dish-soap/

See how stupid all of this is? If you listen to these organic nut jobs you won't touch anything.

Posted on: 6/30 7:56 am
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Re: Roundup from the same company that brought you Agent Orange
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
8/2/2010 10:50 am
From Canonsburg, PA
Posts: 4646
Quote:

EERY wrote:
Well I still am a concerned person. I'm not sold on the story that I'd have to drink a glass of glyphosate daily to be harmed. There's evidence that glyphosate is now present in a large portion of our waterways and in our foods. Granted in most areas glyphosate is used only seasonally, therefore it would only be in our streams limited amount of time. The chemical is obviously toxic, and the majority of us are now taking it in on a daily basis. At this point we have no idea of what a long term effect products like round up will have on our population.

One thing I do know for sure is that Monsanto spends a lot of money fighting any bad publicity there products might come under. They also pump a ton of money into politics, and not just in the US. They fought tooth and nail over the GMO food labeling. I'm sure they have their fingers in as many studies and reports about glyphosate as they can. I would conjecture that they pay off anyone they can that might cause them troubles.

I know I'm just considered to be a conspiracy theorist on here. Though the majority of Monsanto's actions aren't of a company that prides themselves on being above bored and honest. Perhaps that's why they hitched their financial wagon to Hillary Clinton this past election.


OK....A lot here. Let's take it one by one.

Quote:
Well I still am a concerned person. I'm not sold on the story that I'd have to drink a glass of glyphosate daily to be harmed. There's evidence that glyphosate is now present in a large portion of our waterways and in our foods. Granted in most areas glyphosate is used only seasonally, therefore it would only be in our streams limited amount of time. The chemical is obviously toxic, and the majority of us are now taking it in on a daily basis. At this point we have no idea of what a long term effect products like round up will have on our population.


Here we run into our first problem. You cited the WHO as labeling the chemical as a possible cancer causing agent and that it produced genotoxic results. I cited the EXACT SAME ORGANIZATION referencing the levels of ingestion required to achieve that toxicity. How can you choose to believe one and not the other? Is the WHO a trustworthy organization? If yes, then this is just as valid as your citation. If not, why would you believe only the bad citation and not the good ones. This is because of cognitive bias. You select information based on your beliefs and filter out ones that don't.

The concentration of glyphosate in corn flakes is reported by a biased observer as being about 1 part per million. Contrast that with rat poop which probably is in corn flakes at the rate of 1 part per 250,000 or so. So there is about 4 times as much rat **** as there is glyphosate.

Round-up has been around since 1972. That is 45 years. It has been around for a long time. If there were negative effects on humans we would have seen it by now. In terms of humans that is more than two generations of people. If there were serious health effects we should see them by now.

Quote:
One thing I do know for sure is that Monsanto spends a lot of money fighting any bad publicity there products might come under. They also pump a ton of money into politics, and not just in the US. They fought tooth and nail over the GMO food labeling. I'm sure they have their fingers in as many studies and reports about glyphosate as they can. I would conjecture that they pay off anyone they can that might cause them troubles.


Lots of companies do the same thing. In my opinion that is not altogether a bad thing especially when that publicity is unfounded. As I say, glyphosate has been studied over and over and found to have no negative effects in levels that are in our food supply. General Motors has a policy to fight EVERY lawsuit against them even when they know they are wrong. This results in people shying away from suing them. Monsanto does spend a lot of money on politics. Monsanto is a provider of seeds all over the world. Geopolitical issues are important to them and that requires them to be involved. Sanctions put on Russia and China and North Korea or Iran or Iraq can cost them a lot of money. At the same time just allowing their products to be listed as bad when there is absolutely NO evidence of such without a fight would send a bad signal. ADM spends a lot of money doing the same thing. Tyson Foods ends up paying fines continually because of market manipulation. These are the real things we should watch for.

In terms of fighting GMO labeling, this is the most egregious over-regulation I have seen. GMO's are listed by the same organization as you cited as being ABSOLUTELY 100% safe for consumption and are nutritionally EQUIVALENT to the non-GMO product. Why should someone have to go through the expense and negative stigma of labeling this on their label. Why don't we force manufacturers to label their products for other items? Ragu pasta sauce? What kind of tomatoes? Beefsteak, heirloom, Ponderosa, hybrid? How about we force food manufacturers to label that they use hybrid raw materials in their products? Hybridization is a form of genetic modification. All of this is just as stupid and any company in their right mind would fight the requirement to do this kind of labeling. If GMO labeling is important, there is nothing wrong with putting the onus on the people who feel it is important. How about having products which contain no GMOs just label themselves "Contains no GMOs" and then they and their customers be responsible for the audit costs. Now we are all happy. Kellogs purchases millions of metric tons of corn, wheat and oats per year. Much of it is probably GMOs, I would suggest that they have no idea whether an individual box contains GMOs. It is ridiculous for them to track it. It would be expensive so they will probably have to put this label on every box. As a result a shopper still wouldn't really know if that box they are eating REALLY contains GMOs.....and at the end of the day....IT FREAKING DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE ITS THE EQUIVALENT PRODUCT AS TESTED TIME AND TIME AGAIN BY INDEPENDENT AGENCIES!

Quote:
I know I'm just considered to be a conspiracy theorist on here. Though the majority of Monsanto's actions aren't of a company that prides themselves on being above bored and honest. Perhaps that's why they hitched their financial wagon to Hillary Clinton this past election.


While Monsanto may have a negative view by people, I don't really see them as being a patently dishonest company like say an Enron (Bush friend). Look, large companies support everyone. They have to. They hitched their wagon to Hillary because they believed that Trump couldn't win. Lots of people including me thought America couldn't be so stupid to elect Trump but....here we are. Monsanto (the whole combined company not just the ag part of the divestiture) at the same time has done some really great environmental things. They invented carpet that is made from corn instead of harsh chemicals. They just only get credit for the bad things. I think I could easily work for Monsanto with pride.

Posted on: 6/30 9:19 am
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Re: Roundup from the same company that brought you Agent Orange
Makin' it Rain
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From Canonsburg, PA
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Quote:

WVisHome wrote:
Yea, because companies have NEVER tried to hide or cover up damage their products and byproducts have caused.


I agree with you. This is why you need government oversight and rules and regulations. ALL companies today operate under the idea at the upper level of...."If you don't want me to do it you should make a law against it.".

I am certainly willing to listen to any real research but you also have to be understanding of science. I know that most of us are but there are a heck of a lot of people who aren't. The whole issue with saccharin's cancer "causing" properties. You would have to consume a 55 gallon drum of saccharin every day for your whole life to expect to get cancer from it. Then it was found that the cancer produced in rats was not possible in humans. Was the labeling taken away? Nope. See the danger in forcing people to label things and why a company would fight to have the label not put on their product. This just is irrelevant and I don't think they should be required to label it. It has really hurt sales and I doubt that the substitute product has gone through that much testing.

I think that at some level all companies are bad because all companies are made up of individuals and a small portion of these individuals are bad so by default companies will always be found to be doing bad things....unless they are single person companies.

Posted on: 6/30 9:32 am
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Re: Roundup from the same company that brought you Agent Orange
Pitt Hater
Joined:
7/21/2008 9:57 pm
From North Central, WV
Posts: 1759
Well I for one am happy that people are being made more aware of the health concerns of these products we are dumping all over our environment. I'm not one who is willing to just look the other way, because it's an easy fix to a daily annoyance. Our bodies have to filter out lots of carcinogenic compounds daily. Our cancer rates are climbing higher year after year. Something has to give. Unfortunately it usually is another loved one to cancer. You wonder why these health nut jobs are willing to fight these large corporations over health concerns. It's because most of them have lost loved ones or battled the outfall themselves.

If doing business in California is becoming to expensive for Monsanto due to labeling, perhaps they should just do business elsewhere. My guess is that would be a more undesirable outcome for them financially.


Posted on: 6/30 10:05 pm
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Re: Roundup from the same company that brought you Agent Orange
Pitt Hater
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And again for the record, I am no fan of the Bush family.

Posted on: 6/30 10:12 pm
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Re: Roundup from the same company that brought you Agent Orange
Pitt Hater
Joined:
7/21/2008 9:57 pm
From North Central, WV
Posts: 1759
Quote:
They just only get credit for the bad things


This is a valid point among others that you made. Monsanto does seem to end up in most people's crosshairs. They are almost always cast in a negative light.

Posted on: 7/1 12:45 am
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Re: Roundup from the same company that brought you Agent Orange
Makin' it Rain
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From Canonsburg, PA
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If people want to rage against 'the man', the best way to do that is to complain about the use of neonicotinoids. These are a class of bad pesticides which have been outright outlawed in Europe. They have been shown to be contributing to the decline of the honeybee.

The issue I have about them is their indiscriminate use. I have no problems using them on our food supply but to just use them all over is the reason I haven't been able to keep honeybees alive for the last 10 years. I have a number of golf courses around that use them a lot.

Posted on: 7/2 4:45 pm
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Re: Roundup from the same company that brought you Agent Orange
Pitt Hater
Joined:
7/21/2008 9:57 pm
From North Central, WV
Posts: 1759
My wife and I are looking to get into honeybees next year. That is definitely something I'll will study up on.

I'm still going to string trim more instead of using glyphosate on my property. A choice I wish more people made. We only use the vinegar concoction around the flowerbeds to keep the grass clippings out.

Posted on: 7/3 1:23 am
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Re: Roundup from the same company that brought you Agent Orange
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
8/2/2010 10:50 am
From Canonsburg, PA
Posts: 4646
Quote:

EERY wrote:
My wife and I are looking to get into honeybees next year. That is definitely something I'll will study up on.

I'm still going to string trim more instead of using glyphosate on my property. A choice I wish more people made. We only use the vinegar concoction around the flowerbeds to keep the grass clippings out.


I hope you are able to keep them. I got completely wiped out about 12 years ago. I had 15 hives on different property sites. It was a combination of colony collapse disease and resistant mites. Since then I have spent significantly more than $1000 to try to get a hive just to survive through the winter. I have had no luck. I will probably keep trying but They don't even last to my first mite check. My grandfather kept bees and my dad kept bees and even gave me his bees when he got too old.

I am all for NOT using chemicals. I try to keep stuff trimmed without spraying. I do use it on my garden. I finally have the ground to the point where I can use it sparingly. The first 5 years that I had a garden (in a spaded up pasture) I had to pour what seemed like 50 gallon cans of roundup. I think I finally have most of the really nasty stuff gone so I can just hoe and use a rotary tiller.

One place where I still heavily advocate the use of round-up is on Chinese Tree of Heaven (CToH). They are the most insidious invasive species I have seen. That includes multifloral rose. They resprout through the root system. My father-in-law used to say if you kill a CToH 50 friends show up for the funeral. It sure seems that way to me. The only way I know to kill them is I use a hatchet and hatchet into the bark, spray the round-up and wait for the tree to die. Painting the stumps doesn't always work because the application of round-up has to be quick or the tree seals over. The tree itself secretes its own herbicide that kills competing plants. It was brought over from China to plant along railways. The tree is really impressive. It grows in the crappiest soil around. I have even seen it grow on rocks.

I hate those trees!!!!!! I bet you can't guess what I am going to be doing over the 4th.

Posted on: 7/3 1:23 pm
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