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Re: Charlottesville
Pitt Hater
Joined:
8/22/2007 7:48 pm
From Frederick, MD
Posts: 2487
So here is what I don't get. Nazi Germany was about as far left on the political spectrum as you can get. Indeed they were actually called the National Socialist German Workers Party.

The American Nazi skin head white supremacy ASSHOLES have been labeled by the American media as alt-right, yet they have wholly the same beliefs as Nazi Germany, all the way down to the despicable racist hatred.

I really don't care what we call them. But isn't it interesting how the "controversy" over removing a bunch of statues of slavery loving Democrat confederates, and the riots and clashes from a far left violent group called ANTIFA, are having with far left violent group called Nazi Skin Heads, is being pinned on Trump and the Republicans by the MSM. It really is an exercise in pretzel logic how this all ends up in the republicans lap. Nobody stops to think about what is being sold to us by the media. Its absolute total nonsense.

You also have got to wonder is there nobody in Trump's cabinet that can pen a speech or comment (tweet?) to take away most of the MSM's talking points. How hard is it to say "Nazi skin heads are bad, ANTIFA are also bad". Done. no more Trump ownership. Remarkable.

Posted on: 8/21 3:17 pm
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Re: Charlottesville
Pitt Hater
Joined:
7/21/2008 9:57 pm
From North Central, WV
Posts: 1788
Quote:

Eers88 wrote:
Quote:

WVisHome wrote:
Thanks for your account 88.

I still disagree with some of your takes on parts of it, although I agree with the majority of it.

None of these groups are "right" or "left"....they're simply assholes. No more, no less.



You can see the division it is causing by labeling them right or left. 1818 is apoplectic about trying to say the "left" is worse than the "right." It is all a sideshow to the real issues surrounding these groups.


I totally agree that the hatred these extreme groups have is a real problem. It most definitely is not a right or left issue when it gets to that degree. The more these groups try to divide, the more we need to try to find ways to come together. There is no room in our society for extreme racism. There is no room in our society for groups that would surround others in a bullying manner and try to insight violence. (Screaming in people's faces, throwing urine balloons, and holding your middle finger three inches from someone's face is inciting violence.)

These are not American ideals. These groups far exceed the ideals of the rational left and right in our society.

Posted on: 8/21 4:25 pm
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Re: Charlottesville
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
7/8/2008 8:36 pm
From Around
Posts: 6674
Quote:

83Grad wrote:
So here is what I don't get. Nazi Germany was about as far left on the political spectrum as you can get. Indeed they were actually called the National Socialist German Workers Party.

The American Nazi skin head white supremacy ASSHOLES have been labeled by the American media as alt-right, yet they have wholly the same beliefs as Nazi Germany, all the way down to the despicable racist hatred.

I really don't care what we call them. But isn't it interesting how the "controversy" over removing a bunch of statues of slavery loving Democrat confederates, and the riots and clashes from a far left violent group called ANTIFA, are having with far left violent group called Nazi Skin Heads, is being pinned on Trump and the Republicans by the MSM. It really is an exercise in pretzel logic how this all ends up in the republicans lap. Nobody stops to think about what is being sold to us by the media. Its absolute total nonsense.

You also have got to wonder is there nobody in Trump's cabinet that can pen a speech or comment (tweet?) to take away most of the MSM's talking points. How hard is it to say "Nazi skin heads are bad, ANTIFA are also bad". Done. no more Trump ownership. Remarkable.


He actually did. He denounced both sides. Then Eers88 goes on to say "Trump's statements that what happened here was an "egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides" was a gut punch to me and everyone here. There was only one "side" displaying "hatred, bigotry and violence" in Charlottesville, and people advancing that rhetoric makes it really hard to recover. This isn't a partisan issue, it is a decency issue."

Which simply wasnt true. Both sides were at faultin Charletsville. And the alt-lefts role gained momentum in Boston where thousands came to threaten literal hundreds for supporting free speech, where of the small group there were men and women of all races and religions supporting our first amendment.

Posted on: 8/22 2:16 am
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Re: Charlottesville
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
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Posts: 6674
Quote:

delispam wrote:
Don't let 1818 fool you.

This "free speech rally" was about giving White Nationalist Kyle Chapman and conspiracy nut Joe Biggs a platform to speak but they were too chickenshit to give their speeches when confronted with a sea of dissenters.

Here's why people showed up to say "get the **** out of Boston with your bullshit"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2V4tOJ9JkQ


All of these people, including the guy in Eery's video, could have said whatever they would have liked but when they were faced with the repercussions of saying it they gave up.

Free speech doesn't mean you can say whatever bullshit you want without repercussions, it just means you won't go to jail for it.



Hey, Einstein, you realize that video was from May, right?

Dont let Deli fool you (AGAIN LOL). He was probably so upset that Americans of all races and religions came together to support free speech that he posted a video not at all related to what happened this week.

Again, this is what actually happened in Boston.

https://youtu.be/q9X2ZRB9GCU


Thousands came to shut down 50-100 or so people of different colors. To stop this speech given by a person of color. That seems racist to me. The misinformation by the alt-left labeling a free speech drmonstration by a person of color as a "white supremacy rally" is deplorable. There were no confederate or nazi flags/signs, and there were people of all colors there even holding "Black Lives DO Matter" signs.

Posted on: 8/22 2:30 am
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Re: Charlottesville
Grant Ave. Warrior
Joined:
10/27/2006 2:33 pm
From LA
Posts: 1050
Of course I realize the video was from May. I thought that was implied when I said Based Stickman was too much of a **** to give his little pep talk at the free speech rally this past weekend. It was posted as an example of what kind of speech 40,000 people showed up to say "hell nah" to.

Lot of white people in that video. Seems like the only POC was Shiva Ayyadurai, who was at least brave enough to speak his views.


---

Re- Nazis


I totally agree that the biggest reason this ended up on Trump's lap is because he didn't basically say "**** nazis" in the biggest political give-me of his career.

This Nazis were socialist thing has been debunked a 1,000 times. Hitler and his associates found an established organization and co-opted with their own message and rode it to power but that's anther debate. Socialist in name only.

American Nazis and KKK members did the same thing when they caught the Trump and alt-right wave. Unfortunately it's taken a little while for the right to pick up that the KKK was riding in the wake and it's going to take a while for the line to be drawn in thicker.

We on the left picked up on the KKK problem on the right during Trump's campaign and election and it's taken the right a little bit of time to realize that faction was bigger and more vocal than most knew. Because the vast majority of the people on the right are good people ya'll didn't want to believe that racists had latched on just as most on the left are just now becoming aware of the ANTIFA problem.


I do think that the people on right and the alt-right has done a much better job lately of telling Nazis and racists to go the **** home. The problem is that the racists were very vocal about getting Trump elected. It will take some time until there is a thicker line drawn but without Trump saying "**** nazis" and walking the walk it's going to keep projecting a racist image onto people who are not that way.




---

Re- "Alt-left"

There's no such thing as the alt-left, unless that's what you consider ANTIFA, which is a fraction of a percent of the left.

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Alt-left was a term coined to make you dehumanize people the president and rage-bait media don't like. Alt-right, however is a term that people on the alt-right claimed for themselves.

---

What do I not understand about white nationalism? I've always thought white nationalism was the bread and butter of the KKK and American Nazis. Honest question: What am I missing?

Posted on: 8/22 7:59 am
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Re: Charlottesville
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
7/8/2008 8:36 pm
From Around
Posts: 6674
Quote:

delispam wrote:
Of course I realize the video was from May. I thought that was implied when I said Based Stickman was too much of a **** to give his little pep talk at the free speech rally this past weekend. It was posted as an example of what kind of speech 40,000 people showed up to say "hell nah" to.

Lot of white people in that video. Seems like the only POC was Shiva Ayyadurai, who was at least brave enough to speak his views.


---

Re- Nazis


I totally agree that the biggest reason this ended up on Trump's lap is because he didn't basically say "**** nazis" in the biggest political give-me of his career.

This Nazis were socialist thing has been debunked a 1,000 times. Hitler and his associates found an established organization and co-opted with their own message and rode it to power but that's anther debate. Socialist in name only.

American Nazis and KKK members did the same thing when they caught the Trump and alt-right wave. Unfortunately it's taken a little while for the right to pick up that the KKK was riding in the wake and it's going to take a while for the line to be drawn in thicker.

We on the left picked up on the KKK problem on the right during Trump's campaign and election and it's taken the right a little bit of time to realize that faction was bigger and more vocal than most knew. Because the vast majority of the people on the right are good people ya'll didn't want to believe that racists had latched on just as most on the left are just now becoming aware of the ANTIFA problem.


I do think that the people on right and the alt-right has done a much better job lately of telling Nazis and racists to go the **** home. The problem is that the racists were very vocal about getting Trump elected. It will take some time until there is a thicker line drawn but without Trump saying "**** nazis" and walking the walk it's going to keep projecting a racist image onto people who are not that way.




---

Re- "Alt-left"

There's no such thing as the alt-left, unless that's what you consider ANTIFA, which is a fraction of a percent of the left.

Open in new window


Alt-left was a term coined to make you dehumanize people the president and rage-bait media don't like. Alt-right, however is a term that people on the alt-right claimed for themselves.

---

What do I not understand about white nationalism? I've always thought white nationalism was the bread and butter of the KKK and American Nazis. Honest question: What am I missing?



Trump said he disavows the KKK, and bigotry on all sides. He has personally disavowed David Duke on mulitple occasions. If you honestly believe Trump is in support of Nazis then I'm sorry but you truly are insane. Obama never disavowed Islamic terrorism so I guess hes an islamic terrorist. Right? Also, the same racists that "got Trump elected" were the same racists that voted for Obama. Less white people voted for Trump than they did for Romney and recieved a lot more votes from blacks and Hispanics. The key flipped states and counties were previously democratic. But thats a seperate discussion. You do know that the KKK has less than 3,000 members. Right? They make up less than 0.009% of the population. Again, if you think the KKK and nazis got trump elected, please refer to ealier when I called you insane. Hate groups have to start somewhere. The alt-right was first used by Gottfried in 2008. There was no alt-right before then. The alt-left is real and they now have a label for their racism, bigotry,and hatred of American values instead of simply being called liberals.

Posted on: 8/22 9:05 am
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Re: Charlottesville
Pitt Hater
Joined:
7/21/2008 9:57 pm
From North Central, WV
Posts: 1788
Alt-Right was originally spoken by Hillary. Some on the right claim it, but for the most part it is a name used by the left, especially the left media to call conservatives. I don't consider myself Alt-Right. I don't personally know a single conservative that considers themselves Alt-Right. However on here I'm called Alt-Right quite often by Liberals.

Alt-Left is just giving the left a taste of its own medicine. It's just like the fake news nonsense. The left is infamous for labeling people they disagree with to degrade the message of those people. It's a very elementary school tactic that seems to work on the majority of a dumbed down population.

The right got tired of always being on the defense of all the name calling by the left. In turn the right just takes the name calling and inverts it back in an applicable way to the left. It's also just as juvenile. It's why I have such a problem with people on the left assuming intellectual superiority.

Labeling and belittling is not an intellectual argument. Unfortunately the right is becoming almost just as bad. We seem to be spending more time name calling than working through problems. Wish I could say I'm completely innocent of this, but I'm not. If the left wants their name calling to stop inverting back on them, then perhaps they should stop calling names.

Posted on: 8/22 11:42 am
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Re: Charlottesville

Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 12605
Quote:

wvufan1818 wrote:
Quote:

83Grad wrote:
So here is what I don't get. Nazi Germany was about as far left on the political spectrum as you can get. Indeed they were actually called the National Socialist German Workers Party.

The American Nazi skin head white supremacy ASSHOLES have been labeled by the American media as alt-right, yet they have wholly the same beliefs as Nazi Germany, all the way down to the despicable racist hatred.

I really don't care what we call them. But isn't it interesting how the "controversy" over removing a bunch of statues of slavery loving Democrat confederates, and the riots and clashes from a far left violent group called ANTIFA, are having with far left violent group called Nazi Skin Heads, is being pinned on Trump and the Republicans by the MSM. It really is an exercise in pretzel logic how this all ends up in the republicans lap. Nobody stops to think about what is being sold to us by the media. Its absolute total nonsense.

You also have got to wonder is there nobody in Trump's cabinet that can pen a speech or comment (tweet?) to take away most of the MSM's talking points. How hard is it to say "Nazi skin heads are bad, ANTIFA are also bad". Done. no more Trump ownership. Remarkable.


He actually did. He denounced both sides. Then Eers88 goes on to say "Trump's statements that what happened here was an "egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides" was a gut punch to me and everyone here. There was only one "side" displaying "hatred, bigotry and violence" in Charlottesville, and people advancing that rhetoric makes it really hard to recover. This isn't a partisan issue, it is a decency issue."

Which simply wasnt true. Both sides were at faultin Charletsville. And the alt-lefts role gained momentum in Boston where thousands came to threaten literal hundreds for supporting free speech, where of the small group there were men and women of all races and religions supporting our first amendment.


The factual gymnastics you have to do to come up with your result is incredible. Can you point to the evidence showing that counter protesters drove a car into a group of peaceful protesters? Or where the Nazis protected clergy from the counter protesters who were attacking them? Or where the counter protesters forced their way through the crowd of Nazis beginning the violence? Oh, that's right. You can't because IT DIDN'T **** HAPPEN.

And BTW - don't act like you are genuinely concerned and then act like suck a **** asshole.

Posted on: 8/22 2:59 pm
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Re: Charlottesville
Pitt Hater
Joined:
7/21/2008 9:57 pm
From North Central, WV
Posts: 1788
What happened with the car in Charlottesville was horrible. It saddens me to see things like that take place. I saw the video. It made me sick at my stomach.

Meanwhile there was a man caught trying to plant a bomb on a statue in Texas.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/texas/ ... e-statue-houston-feds-say

Also a Colorado man was attacked by a person with a knife because the person thought he had a Nazi hair cut.
https://www.google.com/amp/nypost.com/ ... taken-for-a-neo-nazi/amp/


There are many acts of violence going on around our country.


Posted on: 8/22 4:29 pm
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Re: Charlottesville
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
7/8/2008 8:36 pm
From Around
Posts: 6674
Quote:

Eers88 wrote:
Quote:

wvufan1818 wrote:
Quote:

83Grad wrote:
So here is what I don't get. Nazi Germany was about as far left on the political spectrum as you can get. Indeed they were actually called the National Socialist German Workers Party.

The American Nazi skin head white supremacy ASSHOLES have been labeled by the American media as alt-right, yet they have wholly the same beliefs as Nazi Germany, all the way down to the despicable racist hatred.

I really don't care what we call them. But isn't it interesting how the "controversy" over removing a bunch of statues of slavery loving Democrat confederates, and the riots and clashes from a far left violent group called ANTIFA, are having with far left violent group called Nazi Skin Heads, is being pinned on Trump and the Republicans by the MSM. It really is an exercise in pretzel logic how this all ends up in the republicans lap. Nobody stops to think about what is being sold to us by the media. Its absolute total nonsense.

You also have got to wonder is there nobody in Trump's cabinet that can pen a speech or comment (tweet?) to take away most of the MSM's talking points. How hard is it to say "Nazi skin heads are bad, ANTIFA are also bad". Done. no more Trump ownership. Remarkable.


He actually did. He denounced both sides. Then Eers88 goes on to say "Trump's statements that what happened here was an "egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides" was a gut punch to me and everyone here. There was only one "side" displaying "hatred, bigotry and violence" in Charlottesville, and people advancing that rhetoric makes it really hard to recover. This isn't a partisan issue, it is a decency issue."

Which simply wasnt true. Both sides were at faultin Charletsville. And the alt-lefts role gained momentum in Boston where thousands came to threaten literal hundreds for supporting free speech, where of the small group there were men and women of all races and religions supporting our first amendment.


The factual gymnastics you have to do to come up with your result is incredible. Can you point to the evidence showing that counter protesters drove a car into a group of peaceful protesters? Or where the Nazis protected clergy from the counter protesters who were attacking them? Or where the counter protesters forced their way through the crowd of Nazis beginning the violence? Oh, that's right. You can't because IT DIDN'T **** HAPPEN.

And BTW - don't act like you are genuinely concerned and then act like suck a **** asshole.


Its funny how you can't follow blatant facts and say its factual gymnastics. Nope. It's just facts, my man. Common facts at that.

I was concerned, Eers. Then you immediately began virtue signalling and playing "victim" of identity politics when both sides were at fault. Then go on to mention that you were triggered by the statue. Funny, that was the first time ive ever seen you mention that you wanted the statue to be taken down. You nwvwr once mwntioned it the 8 years Obama was president. Its sad that you make less since than Charles Barkley.

“I’m 54 years old,” Barkley said. “I’ve never thought about those statues a day in my life. I think if you ask most black people, to be honest, they ain’t thought a day in their life about those stupid statues.”

http://thegrio.com/2017/08/20/charles ... derate-statue-protesters/

But mr moral superiority sure has, right? Give me a break and grow up. Its a statue.

Posted on: 8/22 7:43 pm
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Re: Charlottesville
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
7/8/2008 8:36 pm
From Around
Posts: 6674
Unite the right organizer Jason Kessler was an Obama supporter involved in the Occupy movement and wrote for CNN.

http://schoolsofthought.blogs.cnn.com/tag/jason-kessler-cnn/
http://inamerica.blogs.cnn.com/tag/jason-kessler-cnn/
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/tag/cnns-jason-kessler/

links to stuff hes in.

Archives: http://archive.is/Junun

Another, with Tweets: http://archive.is/hwStk

Also involved in Occupy http://ibankcoin.com/zeropointnow/201 ... bama-supporter-8-mos-ago/

"‘Unite the Right’ organizer Jason Kessler was reportedly an Obama supporter involved in the Occupy movement as recently as November 2016, before establishing his white supremacist group “Unity & Security for America” in January, 2017."

Archive: http://archive.is/1XyCv

Chat logs of him "joking around" about car attacks weeks before the rally: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKyjj15VBn0

Also, look at the name of the chat room - "shuttle service information" - more bussing people in to act like "white supremacists" or "nazis"?

"SETUP? MAN BEHIND WHITE-SUPREMACIST RALLY SUPPORTED OBAMA" - WND

Archive: http://archive.is/sLaBF

Posted on: 8/25 12:56 pm
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Re: Charlottesville
Pitt Hater
Joined:
7/21/2008 9:57 pm
From North Central, WV
Posts: 1788
Quote:

wvufan1818 wrote:
Unite the right organizer Jason Kessler was an Obama supporter involved in the Occupy movement and wrote for CNN.

http://schoolsofthought.blogs.cnn.com/tag/jason-kessler-cnn/
http://inamerica.blogs.cnn.com/tag/jason-kessler-cnn/
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/tag/cnns-jason-kessler/

links to stuff hes in.

Archives: http://archive.is/Junun

Another, with Tweets: http://archive.is/hwStk

Also involved in Occupy http://ibankcoin.com/zeropointnow/201 ... bama-supporter-8-mos-ago/

"‘Unite the Right’ organizer Jason Kessler was reportedly an Obama supporter involved in the Occupy movement as recently as November 2016, before establishing his white supremacist group “Unity & Security for America” in January, 2017."

Archive: http://archive.is/1XyCv

Chat logs of him "joking around" about car attacks weeks before the rally: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKyjj15VBn0

Also, look at the name of the chat room - "shuttle service information" - more bussing people in to act like "white supremacists" or "nazis"?

"SETUP? MAN BEHIND WHITE-SUPREMACIST RALLY SUPPORTED OBAMA" - WND

Archive: http://archive.is/sLaBF


I will call the information you posted fake news, because it was not reported to me by my liberal ministers of think.

Posted on: 8/25 7:59 pm
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Re: Charlottesville
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
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From Around
Posts: 6674
???????????

Oh my God. Its almost as if the civil war wasnt ONLY about slavery!!!!!!

This is where understanding history comes back to discussion. People that advocate for the removal of statues know absolutely nothing about the history of Lee, others, the civil war, etc. You're all a bunch of idiots. If you had any inkling of knowledge about the civil war, you wouldn't argue to tear down statues, now that its trendy to do so thanks to the alt-left getting their feelings hurt.

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Posted on: 8/26 8:23 am
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Re: Charlottesville
Webmaster
Joined:
2/11/2012 10:32 pm
From Seattle
Posts: 6745
Quote:

wvufan1818 wrote:
???????????

Oh my God. Its almost as if the civil war wasnt ONLY about slavery!!!!!!

This is where understanding history comes back to discussion. People that advocate for the removal of statues know absolutely nothing about the history of Lee, others, the civil war, etc. You're all a bunch of idiots. If you had any inkling of knowledge about the civil war, you wouldn't argue to tear down statues, now that its trendy to do so thanks to the alt-left getting their feelings hurt.


So, if the civil war wasn't about slavery then why did Lee think that freeing all the slaves would avoid the war? And did Lee back up there words by freeing his own slaves?

Posted on: 8/26 12:41 pm
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Re: Charlottesville
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
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From Around
Posts: 6674
Good questions.

The South wanted to secede from an ever oppressive government. Slavery was the final drop. Lincoln wanted to preserve the union because he needed the south for industrialisation and the economy of the north was heavily dependent on Louisiana and that Mississippi river. After the war Lincoln planned to deport all blacks to Liberia. Neither Lee, nor Lincoln wanted this war. But it was two forces that were going to clash inevitably. What one should admire is Lincoln and Lee's work to unify the union after the war. Lee was an honorable man. He did not want any statues erected in his name, and yet they were. Anyone who does not know their history is doomed to repeat it. The left does not learn from history. They point their fingers and scream racists without seeing the humanity of it. Without putting things into context. Following the path of the left is a path of war and destruction. We are capable of great evil. We need to learn from history. Not erase it. If we do we'll have a third world war. And for those who say that slavery was the holocaust of the blacks. Yes. But keep in mind that blacks were the biggest slave traders in the world. Your solution is not to castigate white people. They are not your enemy. America fought a war that ended slavery. Slavery ended very much with the help of Lee. Destroying his statues is shitting on everything that is American history. But also note that slavery has been a thing of humans for all of history leading up to the 1800s. It's only after the 1800s that the West made abolishing it the standard thing. Slavery is still practiced today all over the world in places unaffected by the west.

Posted on: 8/26 1:09 pm
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Re: Charlottesville
Webmaster
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Posts: 6745
There's a lot to comment on here.

Quote:

wvufan1818 wrote:
The South wanted to secede from an ever oppressive government. Slavery was the final drop.

The quote you posted from Lee itself makes it clear that he felt that slavery was the issue. If the slaves were freed, the war could be avoided. Yet he didn't free his own slaves and fought for those who refused to release theirs. I don' know why anyone would want to honor this.

Quote:

After the war Lincoln planned to deport all blacks to Liberia. Neither Lee, nor Lincoln wanted this war.

This is not accurate: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-met ... end-ex-slaves-central-am/

Quote:
But it was two forces that were going to clash inevitably.

Per the quote you pasted, Lee felt that if the slaves were freed then war could be avoided.

Quote:
What one should admire is Lincoln and Lee's work to unify the union after the war. Lee was an honorable man.

Lee's willingness to help unify after the war is probably his best trait. I personally cannot consider someone who lead an army to fight on the side to preserve slavery to be honorable, however.

Quote:

He did not want any statues erected in his name, and yet they were.

He didn't want statues for himself or the confederacy in general because he said it would be divisive. I think he was right and we're seeing the evidence of this and just how long lasting the divisiveness is.

Quote:
Anyone who does not know their history is doomed to repeat it.

No one is saying we should pretend this didn't happen. Many people simply feel, as Lee did, that honoring the confederacy is divisive. You don't have to erect statues, which are meant to honor people, in the public square. Put it in an art museum, or a history museum, and i'm all for it.

Quote:
The left does not learn from history. They point their fingers and scream racists without seeing the humanity of it. Without putting things into context. Following the path of the left is a path of war and destruction. We are capable of great evil.

A lot of what occurred in Charlottesville was racist and it should be confronted for being so. It's extremely disappointing to me that the the focus is on a statue and conspiracy theories rather than a full condemnation of the KKK and Nazis that were carrying torches chanting anti-semitic an racist slogans and driving cars into crowds. We saw the great evil that you rightly say we are capable of. There's no context that puts support for Hitler and lynching in some different light is there?

Quote:

And for those who say that slavery was the holocaust of the blacks. Yes. But keep in mind that blacks were the biggest slave traders in the world. Your solution is not to castigate white people. They are not your enemy.

There were a lot of people engaged in slave trade. That doesn't alleviate any of the responsibility of those in this country that supported and fought for the right to own slaves and doesn't mean, IMO, that we should honor someone who fought a war to defend slavery. It's not about castigating white people. It's about recognizing the evil of racism and slavery and the impacts that this still has on our society today.

Quote:

America fought a war that ended slavery. Slavery ended very much with the help of Lee.

America fought a war because the Confederacy thought that the right to own slaves was worth dying for. Almost all other countries were able to abolish slavery without a war. It's not something we should be proud of. And given that Lee fought for the side that wanted slavery and who failed to free his own slaves, I find it odd to say he helped end slavery. Unless you mean he did his part by losing the war?

Quote:

Destroying his statues is shitting on everything that is American history.

I think American history is much greater than Lee. I also think few people actually want the statues destroyed. I don't. Museums are great place for such relics. Not the public square as they are now, though.

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But also note that slavery has been a thing of humans for all of history leading up to the 1800s. It's only after the 1800s that the West made abolishing it the standard thing. Slavery is still practiced today all over the world in places unaffected by the west.

It's tragic that slavery still exists today and I believe we should be honoring those that helped to end it here, and not those that fought to continue such a barbaric system.

Posted on: 8/26 5:03 pm
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Re: Charlottesville
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
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From Just barely outside the Beltway.
Posts: 7329
Quote:'

Anecdotal evidence is the BEST evidence!

Posted on: 8/26 5:16 pm
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Re: Charlottesville

Joined:
4/9/2008 12:11 pm
From Wilderness, VA via Hacker Valley, WV
Posts: 14445
https://www.yahoo.com/news/black-clad- ... tack-least-020512784.html

Black-clad anarchists on Sunday stormed into what had been a largely peaceful Berkeley protest against hate and attacked at least five people, including the leader of a politically conservative group who canceled an event a day earlier in San Francisco amid fears of violence.

The group of more than 100 hooded protesters, with shields emblazoned with the words “no hate” and waving a flag identifying themselves as anarchists, busted through police lines, avoiding security checks by officers to take away possible weapons. Then the anarchists blended with a crowd of 2,000 largely peaceful protesters who turned up to demonstrate in a “Rally Against Hate” opposed to a much smaller gathering of right-wing protesters.

Berkeley police chief Andrew Greenwood defended how police handled the protest, saying they made a strategic decision to let the anarchists enter to avoid more violence.

Greenwood said “the potential use of force became very problematic” given the thousands of peaceful protesters in the park. Once anarchists arrived, it was clear there would not be dueling protests between left and right so he ordered his officers out of the park and allowed the anarchists to march in.

There was “no need for a confrontation over a grass patch,” Greenwood said.

Among those assaulted was Joey Gibson, the leader of the Patriot Prayer group, which canceled a Saturday rally and was then prevented from holding a news conference when authorities closed off the public square Gibson planned to use. Gibson has denounced racism and said he launched Patriot Prayer after several supporters of President Donald Trump were beaten at a Trump campaign stop in San Jose, California, last year. Authorities nonetheless feared the group’s event could attract white nationalists, as it has in the past.

After the anarchists spotted Gibson at the Berkeley park, they pepper-sprayed him and chased him out as he backed away with his hands held in the air. Gibson rushed behind a line of police wearing riot gear, who set off a smoke bomb to drive away the anarchists.

Separately, groups of hooded, black-clad protesters attacked at least four other men in or near the park, kicking and punching them until the assaults were stopped by police. The assaults were witnessed by an Associated Press reporter.


I never imagined I'd witness our country moving backward at such a frightening pace.

Posted on: 8/28 7:28 am
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We couldn't beat a freshman VT QB.....sad
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Re: Charlottesville
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
12/9/2009 10:45 am
From durham, nc
Posts: 4934
Quote:

Turkish wrote:
Quote:

eer_4da_beer wrote:
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Turkish wrote:
The way I see it, the nazi KKK types and the Antifa BLM types could just go ahead and get rid of each other and the world would be a better place to live. The chances of them changing are slim to none. Let them take each other out then, whatever


Yep,, lots of conservatives pretending both sides are equally bad. The rest of us live in the real world.


LOL!! Only a small percentage of real people living in the real world are even on your side anymore dude. You guys are making sure your reps never win anything ever again in the future too which is wonderful. Please keep it up! Keep pointing your fingers at everyone but yourselves. We love watching you mental midgets do this and believe anything except reality. Its awesome seriously.


Let's revisit this in 2018. Wanna put money on it?

Posted on: 8/30 11:29 pm
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Most folks are as happy as they make up their minds to be. ~Abraham Lincoln

I don't stand by anything. ~Donald J. Trump
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Re: Charlottesville
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
12/9/2009 10:45 am
From durham, nc
Posts: 4934
Quote:

joedaddyski wrote:
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brobison wrote:
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eer_4da_beer wrote:
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Are they chanting this because they want to kill police for being police? Or are they protesting the continual killing of black Americans with no repercussions by the police?

Your side wants to kill people for how they were born (the racists...not the cops in general), not for what they have done. Sorry you can't comprehend the difference,



Hmmmm.....do these police we HAVE to protest against and denigrate ONLY kill black people in error or as an excessive use of force?

Brobison - there is no talking sense to free beer. He's so far left that he labels moderates alt right.
His post make for good laughter though.


Thank you joe dipshitdaddy for agreeing that there is an issue! Koombayah!

Posted on: 8/30 11:33 pm
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Most folks are as happy as they make up their minds to be. ~Abraham Lincoln

I don't stand by anything. ~Donald J. Trump
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