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Re: The Wisdom Gap
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
12/9/2009 10:45 am
From durham, nc
Posts: 5208
Quote:

wvufan1818 wrote:
Quote:

sg44gold wrote:
Sadly, I was watching news clips where they were talking to the students protesting in D.C. And when asked about the 2nd Amendment ...

almost every student said the 2nd Amendment was OUTDATED.

Now, we all know DAMN well they did not come up with that on their own. It is clear that the teachers and the education system in general is brainwashing our young people.

They have clearly not been taught the founding principles of this great Nation and how they all tie together.

Individual Rights, Individual Freedoms, and the Right of the Individual to OWN Private Property. THOSE are the Rights that set this great Nation apart from colonial Europe and civilizations throughout history in general.

And the Founding Fathers knew that the Right to Keep and Bear Arms would be VITAL in protecting those Rights.

The 2nd Amendment will NEVER be outdated.

Which goes back to the original points of this thread. These students, while they may be intelligent; they lack the proper education and requisite experience to grasp the fact that they lack the WISDOM necessary to fully understand the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Outdated??? Wake Up Kids.


You forgot the part where every amendment is void if a kid cries on national television then its okay to take our guns away.


When the 2nd Ammendment was written black people were considered 3/5 of a person and women couldn’t vote. Let’s please not pretend that the founding fathers had everything figured out.

Posted on: 3/31 5:00 am
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Re: The Wisdom Gap
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
7/29/2008 4:48 pm
From Deadwood, Lakota Territory
Posts: 8400
Quote:

eer_4da_beer wrote:


When the 2nd Ammendment was written black people were considered 3/5 of a person and women couldn’t vote. Let’s please not pretend that the founding fathers had everything figured out.


And you can't even see that your so called argument is ass backwards.

The issues you raise were CURED by MORE individual rights and individual FREEDOMS ... NOT less.

The founding fathers' fundamentals were and ARE still correct.

Where are the PARENTS demanding the RIGHT to protect their children???

Well armed undercover security officers in the schools would solve this problem.

But instead we are being told that the ONLY way to address the problem is to take Rights away from law abiding citizens.

Thanks Progressive Socialist Fascists.

Posted on: 3/31 10:56 am
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Re: The Wisdom Gap
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
7/8/2008 8:36 pm
From Around
Posts: 8065
Guns will ALWAYS save more lives than take. Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserves neither liberty or safety. Fascist left wants us living in a concstantly in fear police state. Proving that they dont know ANYTHING about history. Look at what Hitler did, what Stalin did, Mao, Venezuela, Cuba. Pay attention to history.

Posted on: 3/31 12:22 pm
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Re: The Wisdom Gap
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
12/9/2009 10:45 am
From durham, nc
Posts: 5208
Open in new window

Posted on: 3/31 2:54 pm
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Re: The Wisdom Gap
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
7/8/2008 8:36 pm
From Around
Posts: 8065
Quote:

eer_4da_beer wrote:
Open in new window


We already know that you (and Obama) don't care about hundreds of millions of people being slaughtered

Posted on: 3/31 7:34 pm
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Re: The Wisdom Gap
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
7/21/2008 9:57 pm
From North Central, WV
Posts: 2912
Quote:
eer_4da_beer wrote: When the 2nd Ammendment was written black people were considered 3/5 of a person and women couldn’t vote. Let’s please not pretend that the founding fathers had everything figured out.



Open in new window

Posted on: 3/31 7:47 pm
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Re: The Wisdom Gap
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
7/8/2008 8:36 pm
From Around
Posts: 8065
Quote:

EERY wrote:
Quote:
eer_4da_beer wrote: When the 2nd Ammendment was written black people were considered 3/5 of a person and women couldn’t vote. Let’s please not pretend that the founding fathers had everything figured out.



Open in new window



Watch out. He might post a meme or a gif because he can never support an actual argument without getting destroyed.

Posted on: 3/31 9:22 pm
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Re: The Wisdom Gap
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
4/5/2008 11:37 am
From Madison, AL
Posts: 8345
Quote:

eer_4da_beer wrote:
Open in new window


So what are you saying? Obama is too stupid to change a flat tire by hisself?

Posted on: 3/31 10:08 pm
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Re: The Wisdom Gap
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
4/5/2008 11:37 am
From Madison, AL
Posts: 8345
Quote:

eer_4da_beer wrote:
Quote:

wvufan1818 wrote:
Quote:

sg44gold wrote:
Sadly, I was watching news clips where they were talking to the students protesting in D.C. And when asked about the 2nd Amendment ...

almost every student said the 2nd Amendment was OUTDATED.

Now, we all know DAMN well they did not come up with that on their own. It is clear that the teachers and the education system in general is brainwashing our young people.

They have clearly not been taught the founding principles of this great Nation and how they all tie together.

Individual Rights, Individual Freedoms, and the Right of the Individual to OWN Private Property. THOSE are the Rights that set this great Nation apart from colonial Europe and civilizations throughout history in general.

And the Founding Fathers knew that the Right to Keep and Bear Arms would be VITAL in protecting those Rights.

The 2nd Amendment will NEVER be outdated.

Which goes back to the original points of this thread. These students, while they may be intelligent; they lack the proper education and requisite experience to grasp the fact that they lack the WISDOM necessary to fully understand the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Outdated??? Wake Up Kids.


You forgot the part where every amendment is void if a kid cries on national television then its okay to take our guns away.


When the 2nd Ammendment was written black people were considered 3/5 of a person and women couldn’t vote. Let’s please not pretend that the founding fathers had everything figured out.


Capt obvious just threw out a comment that tried to make everyone think that the text stated that EVERYTHING was figured out. Try again.

Posted on: 3/31 10:15 pm
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Re: The Wisdom Gap
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
12/9/2009 10:45 am
From durham, nc
Posts: 5208
Just saying that attacking high schoolers in order to shut down a conversation that is likely to go nowhere isn’t helpful.

News media hounding these kids, folks pushing conspiracy theories about them and rallying NRA memberships isn’t a showing of strength...that’s fear.

...and nobody gets my guns either.


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Posted on: 4/1 6:14 am
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Re: The Wisdom Gap
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
7/8/2008 8:36 pm
From Around
Posts: 8065
Quote:

eer_4da_beer wrote:
Just saying that attacking high schoolers in order to shut down a conversation that is likely to go nowhere isn’t helpful.

News media hounding these kids, folks pushing conspiracy theories about them and rallying NRA memberships isn’t a showing of strength...that’s fear.

...and nobody gets my guns either.


Open in new window



How are thousands of people rallying behind a company after they were falsely blamed for a mass shooting a thing of fear? Are we sulposed to let children dictate which companies should be successful and which companies should be shut down? You don't know what youre talking about.

Posted on: 4/1 9:57 am
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Re: The Wisdom Gap
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
7/8/2008 8:36 pm
From Around
Posts: 8065
So London has surpassed NY in murders for the first time in modern history. No guns, yet more murders. Wonder why? (Islam)

Doesnt take a genius to understand this.

Posted on: 4/1 12:04 pm
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Re: The Wisdom Gap
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
7/20/2008 1:23 pm
From Just barely outside the Beltway.
Posts: 7542
Quote:

wvufan1818 wrote:
Guns will ALWAYS save more lives than take.


For credit you must show your math.

Posted on: 4/2 1:11 pm
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Re: The Wisdom Gap
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
7/20/2008 1:23 pm
From Just barely outside the Beltway.
Posts: 7542
Quote:

wvufan1818 wrote:
So London has surpassed NY in murders for the first time in modern history. No guns, yet more murders. Wonder why? (Islam)

Doesnt take a genius to understand this.


I have to be honest when I first saw this story I assumed it was an April fools gag - Like that new reactor Lockheed has patented.

Posted on: 4/2 1:13 pm
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Re: The Wisdom Gap
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
7/8/2008 8:36 pm
From Around
Posts: 8065
Quote:

zwaaa wrote:
Quote:

wvufan1818 wrote:
Guns will ALWAYS save more lives than take.


For credit you must show your math.


https://www.google.com/amp/www.thetrut ... in-criminal-gun-uses/amp/

Posted on: 4/3 7:37 am
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Re: The Wisdom Gap
Grant Ave. Warrior
Joined:
10/27/2006 2:33 pm
From LA
Posts: 1065
DGUs?

How do you gun guys always find yourselves in problems requiring guns to solve them?

Posted on: 4/3 8:47 am
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Re: The Wisdom Gap
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
7/20/2008 1:23 pm
From Just barely outside the Beltway.
Posts: 7542
Quote:

sg44gold wrote:

And you can't even see that your so-called argument is ass backward.



Actually no it isn't. His point is that amendments are something that is added on to AMEND the constitution and they themselves can be AMENDED if a majority of Americans deem it so.

Therefore, please stop defending your position by screaming that the second amendment is inviolable and anyone who disagrees is an idiot.

Posted on: 4/3 9:39 am
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Re: The Wisdom Gap
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
7/20/2008 1:23 pm
From Just barely outside the Beltway.
Posts: 7542
Quote:

wvufan1818 wrote:
Quote:

zwaaa wrote:
Quote:

wvufan1818 wrote:
Guns will ALWAYS save more lives than take.


For credit, you must show your math.



I find your source questionable for a variety of reasons. Looking for the full studies to read.


https://www.vacps.org/public-policy/the-contradictions-of-kleck


In a 1992 survey, Gary Kleck, a Florida State University criminologist, found that there are 2.5 million defensive gun uses (DGU's) per year by “law-abiding” citizens in the United States. Another study from the same period, the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), estimated 65,000 DGUs annually. The NCVS survey differed from Kleck’s study in that it only interviewed those who reported a threatened, attempted, or completed victimization for one of six crimes: rape, robbery, assault, burglary, non-business larceny, and motor vehicle theft. That accounts for the discrepancy in the two results. A National Research Council report said that Kleck's estimates appeared to be exaggerated and that it was almost certain that "some of what respondents designate[d] as their own self-defense would be construed as aggression by others" (Understanding and Preventing Violence, 266, Albert J. Reiss, Jr. & Jeffrey A. Roth, eds., 1992).

The 2.5 million figure would lead us to conclude that, in a serious crime, the victim is three to four times more likely than the offender to have and use a gun. Although the criminal determines when and where a crime occurs, although pro-gun advocates claim that criminals can always get guns, although few potential victims carry guns away from home, the criminal, according to Kleck’s survey, is usually outgunned by the individual he is trying to assault, burglarize, rob or rape.

Kleck’s survey also included gun uses against animals and did not distinguish civilian uses from military of police uses. Kleck’s Interviewers do not appear to have questioned a random individual at a given telephone number, but rather asked to speak to the male head of the household. Males from the South and West were oversampled. The results imply that many hundreds of thousands of murders should have been occurring when a private gun was not available for protection. Yet guns are rarely carried, less than a third of adult Americans personally own guns, and only 27,000 homicides occurred in 1992.

HEMENWAY CRITICISM OF KLECK

“Since a small percentage of people may report virtually anything on a telephone survey, there are serious risks of overestimation in using such surveys to measure rare events. The problem becomes particularly severe when the issue has even a remote possibility of positive social desirability response bias.

Consider the responses to a national random-digit-dial telephone survey of over 1,500 adults conducted in May 1994 by ABC News and the Washington Post. One question asked: "Have you yourself ever seen anything that you believe was a spacecraft from another planet?" 10% of respondents answered in the affirmative. These 150 individuals were then asked, "Have you personally ever been in contact with aliens from another planet or not?" and 6% answered "Yes."

By extrapolating to the national population, we might conclude that almost 20 million Americans have seen spacecraft from another planet, and over a million have been in personal contact with aliens from other planets. That more than a million Americans had contact with aliens would be incredible news—but not the kind actively publicized by reputable scientists. Yet the ABC News/Washington Post data on aliens are as good as or better than that from any of the thirteen surveys cited by K-G as supporting their conclusions about self-defense gun use.”

Complete details of the work by David Hemenway and the Harvard School of Public Health can be found HERE: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearm-researcher-surveys/

STUDIES SHOWING RISK OF GUNS OUTWEIGH BENEFITS

“Given the number of victims allegedly being saved with guns, it would seem natural to conclude that owning a gun substantially reduces your chances of being murdered. Yet a careful case-control study of homicide in the home found that a gun in the home was associated with an increased rather than a reduced risk of homicide. Virtually all of this risk involved homicide by a family member or intimate acquaintance.”

- Arthur L. Kellermann et al., Gun Ownership As a Risk Factor for Homicide in the Home, 329 New Eng. J. Med. 1084, 1087 (1993)

In 1997, Cummings and colleagues at the University of Washington reported that the legal purchase of a handgun was associated with a long-lasting increased risk of violent death.

DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE STUDIES CONCERNING DEFENSIVE GUN USES

DOJ study reported 83,000 annual defensive gun uses from 1987-1992. During same period, there were more than 135,000 total gun deaths and injuries in the U.S. annually.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/hvfsdaft.txt

As for the notion that those using firearms to fend off attackers were more effective in avoiding injury than those using other weapons or no weapons, the DOJ study makes the following exclaimer: "Care should be used in interpreting these data because many aspects of crimes--including victim and offender characteristics, crime circumstances, and offender intent--contribute to victims' injury outcomes."

What is also interesting is that the study notes that "In most cases victims who used firearms to defend themselves or their property were confronted by offenders who were either unarmed or armed with weapons other than firearms." Specifically, only 35% of those who used a firearm in self-defense actually faced an offender who had a gun. DOJ makes no judgments in this study on whether the level of force employed by these individuals was appropriate or consonant with the threat they faced. It may very well be that the presence of firearms in many of these incidents escalated what otherwise might have been non-violent (or non-fatal) encounters.

According to the DOJ study, gun owners also provided criminals with ample opportunities to arm themselves through firearm theft: "From 1987-1992 victims reported an annual average of about 341,000 incidents of firearm theft. Because the NCVS asks for types but not a count of items stolen, the annual total of firearms stolen probably exceeds the number of incidents." It should also be noted that there is no federal law requiring the reporting of lost and stolen firearms, and almost no state laws in this regard. There are undoubtedly thousands of stolen firearms that go entirely unreported every year.

Posted on: 4/3 9:49 am
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Re: The Wisdom Gap
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
7/20/2008 1:23 pm
From Just barely outside the Beltway.
Posts: 7542
Quote:

wvufan1818 wrote:
Quote:

zwaaa wrote:
Quote:

wvufan1818 wrote:
Guns will ALWAYS save more lives than take.


For credit, you must show your math.


https://www.google.com/amp/www.thetrut ... in-criminal-gun-uses/amp/


Assuming you have read the weaknesses of the study this link hangs it's hat on, I will say THIS as a gun owner.

Nothing in any of those studies indicates that registration and background checks would alter any data, nor does it refute the common sense that they are a good idea.

Posted on: 4/3 9:59 am
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Re: The Wisdom Gap
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
7/8/2008 8:36 pm
From Around
Posts: 8065
Quote:

delispam wrote:
DGUs?

How do you gun guys always find yourselves in problems requiring guns to solve them?


Too many criminals. Gun owners shouldn't be blamed for protecting themselves and their families.


Posted on: 4/3 10:06 am
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