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Official NBA Thread
WMITC
Joined:
1/20/2006 11:13 am
From Eastern Panhandle, WV
Posts: 3914
At the all-star break, and there's no NBA threads? Come on, where's Gameface claiming that Kobe Bryant is the greatest player of all time despite never once winning an NBA Finals MVP award? Where's Maadman's smarmy response of Paul Pierce holding the trophy? Where's me pimping my boy Tim Duncan for page after page?

Lets get this thing started.

I'll go first.

I don't even think the MVP race is close right now. It's Lebron, and it's Lebron by A LOT.

Posted on: 2/13/2009 10:17 am
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Re: Official NBA Thread
Makin' it Rain
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crickets... crickets

Posted on: 2/13/2009 1:04 pm
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Re: Official NBA Thread
Makin' it Rain
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12/15/2007 1:43 pm
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let me just clarify, the greatest player of all time is magic johnson. this is not a debatable statement. it is truth. that is all.

Posted on: 2/13/2009 1:20 pm
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Re: Official NBA Thread
Makin' it Rain
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Posted on: 2/13/2009 1:38 pm
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Re: Official NBA Thread
WMITC
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Quote:

wvtarheel wrote:
let me just clarify, the greatest player of all time is magic johnson. this is not a debatable statement. it is truth. that is all.


You would have to be a ninja to be able to spin that garbage and expect to get away with it.

Magic Johnson isn't even the greatest LAKER of all time, let alone player. (Kareem and Shaq top him, imo.)

Posted on: 2/13/2009 1:58 pm
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Re: Official NBA Thread
Makin' it Rain
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wow! jude we may come to blows over that. magic made his free throws. all the time. i might give you kareem but, not shaq. he was dominant, thrived when the ammount of quality big men was starting to decline. hakeem in his prime would have destroyed shaq. oh wait, he did!

how can you not love magic? i love great point guard play and that is the best you've ever seen (we'll talk after chris paul's career is done).
byron scott on his own would never have made an all star team. magic found him in the right spots all the time.

game six. 1980 nba finals. that game alone could cement him as the greatest ever.

i judy chopped this thread (plus i really have to get back to work.)

Posted on: 2/13/2009 2:46 pm
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Re: Official NBA Thread
Makin' it Rain
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Quote:

wvtarheel wrote:

how can you not love magic?


i am fairly "HIV Positive" that many people love magic

(could not resist that south park quote)

Posted on: 2/13/2009 2:51 pm
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Re: Official NBA Thread
Gettin' Schmitty
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for whoever said magic johnson, are you serious? have you ever heard of michael jordan? or oscar robinson? but sure go ahead and say magic johnson, lol. and jude i agree, Lebron already won the MVP

Posted on: 2/13/2009 7:16 pm
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Re: Official NBA Thread
Makin' it Rain
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jordan had the benefit of being in the league during his dominant years with no one on his level. magic had to play against larry, the dr., 'nique, clyde, stockton and malone just to name a few. jordan played mostly against a bunch of streetball thugs.

and if you're going to trot out old school players, big o shouldn't be the first one you bring to the table. start with someone who has more championships than fingers. bill russell. if you're going old school, it starts and ends there.

big o, despite all those big stat lines has one ring to show for it, and that came only when he got dealt to milwaukee and played with kareem. he's a taller version of allen iverson. big stats and nothing to to go with it. so yes, magic was the best ever, because he played against the most of the best players in nba history and still dominated his era over all those other guys.

five rings in the golden era of the nba. 8 nba finals appearances. the guys he lost to were all hall of famers. the teams he beat were some of the best ever. mj had to beat shawn "no condom for me, but some crack would be nice" kemp.

Posted on: 2/13/2009 7:50 pm
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Re: Official NBA Thread
Gettin' Schmitty
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dude magic is not the best. and big o had 181 triple doubles, and if you say jordan didnt play against anybody, your crazy

Posted on: 2/13/2009 8:25 pm
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Re: Official NBA Thread
Makin' it Rain
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1/4/2007 4:58 pm
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Quote:

wvtarheel wrote:
jordan had the benefit of being in the league during his dominant years with no one on his level. .


That's because he was just THAT good.He was the best...definitely better than magic, although Magic was great, of course.

Posted on: 2/14/2009 8:19 am
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Re: Official NBA Thread
Makin' it Rain
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obviously to compare eras is difficult, but, i personally don't think that jordan's bulls teams would be able to win a seven game series against larry' celtics or magic lakers from the eighties. i know that magic and michael met in 1991, but, magic (and his team) were on the decline and nothing was going to stop mj that year.

i am biased. i love good point guard play. a 6'9" point guard with that court vision is a whole lot of fun and creates match-up issues that coaches pray for. it's fun to see a guy score 12 points in a game and still dominate his competition.

and back to big o, i bet he'd trade his 181 triple doubles for magics 130 and five rings. championships have to carry some weigh tin the greatest of all time consideration.

i'm with all of you on the lebron for mvp thing. he's doing more with less talent than kobe is out in LA. he puts that team on his shoulders every night, plus his conference plays tough defense. he just seems to go out and do whatever the cavs need for that game.

Posted on: 2/14/2009 9:02 am
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Re: Official NBA Thread
WMITC
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Quote:

wvtarheel wrote:
obviously to compare eras is difficult, but, i personally don't think that jordan's bulls teams would be able to win a seven game series against larry' celtics or magic lakers from the eighties. i know that magic and michael met in 1991, but, magic (and his team) were on the decline and nothing was going to stop mj that year.

i am biased. i love good point guard play. a 6'9" point guard with that court vision is a whole lot of fun and creates match-up issues that coaches pray for. it's fun to see a guy score 12 points in a game and still dominate his competition.

and back to big o, i bet he'd trade his 181 triple doubles for magics 130 and five rings. championships have to carry some weigh tin the greatest of all time consideration.

i'm with all of you on the lebron for mvp thing. he's doing more with less talent than kobe is out in LA. he puts that team on his shoulders every night, plus his conference plays tough defense. he just seems to go out and do whatever the cavs need for that game.


Magic was a great, great player. But he's not on Jordan's level.

Jordan was the best offensive guard in NBA history (best offensive player goes to Wilt, but he was just a freak for when he played). Jordan was also one of the top 5 or 6 defenders of all time. Magic just never took on that sort of defensive responsibility. (In fact, if memory serves, Jordan guarded Magic in their Finals series.)

Sure, the Lakers and Celtics (as well as the Rockets and Sixers) were great in the 80's, but Jordan had to overtake the Pistons of the 80's, the Cavs of the late 80's early 90's (a very underrated team in the view of history), and most notably the Knicks of the 90's. Put that '92 Knicks team against any team from Magic's heyday and I bet they give them a run for their money.

You say he didn't play against similar competition as Magic did, but he played during the prime years of several hall of famers' careers. Jordan played against and dominated guys like Clyde Drexler, Gary Payton, Reggie Miller, Patrick Ewing, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Charles Barkley, Shaq, and Hakeem Olajuwon. And all of this isn't even including Larry and Magic, who Jordan never beat in their primes, but that still didn't stop him from dropping numbers like 63 points against the Celtics in the '86 playoffs.

If you were making a list of top 5 guys at their positions EVER, in the prime years of their careers, Jordan played against two of the best PG's ever (Stockton and Payton), two of the best centers ever (Shaq and Hakeem), and two of the best power forwards ever (Malone and Barkley).

What more competition do you need?

Posted on: 2/17/2009 2:20 pm
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Re: Official NBA Thread
Makin' it Rain
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yeah, well. that's just like, your opinion man.

Posted on: 2/18/2009 9:39 am
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Re: Official NBA Thread
Pitt Hater
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10/24/2007 1:48 pm
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Not an MVP...but 'Pistol' Pete Maravich was my favorite.

Posted on: 2/18/2009 9:42 am
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Re: Official NBA Thread
Pitt Hater
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Quote:

Jude wrote:


If you were making a list of top 5 guys at their positions EVER, in the prime years of their careers, Jordan played against two of the best PG's ever (Stockton and Payton), two of the best centers ever (Shaq and Hakeem), and two of the best power forwards ever (Malone and Barkley).

What more competition do you need?



Don't forget David Robinson, Pat Ewing, and Dominique Wilkins.

As for point guard play, Magic was "IT". But let;s not forget the stretch of games that Jordan played the point for Chicago at the end of the 1988 season and into the '88 playoffs. He played point for 24 games and had 12 triple-doubles during that stretch, including 7 in a row and 10 in 11 games. 3 of the triple-doubles he scored 40 points and missed being the first player to score 50 in a triple double by "only" getting 8 assists.

The players on his team in 1988 were not exactly Jabbar, Scott, Worthy, Green, Thomson, or even Rambis either. Horace Grant was in his 2nd year, Pippen was in his second year and started to emerge that season, Bill Cartwright, Sam Vincent, John Paxson, Dave Corzine? Not exactly top-flight guys.

Michael was a 2-guard. Had he played point his entire career, he would have revolutionized the position even moreso than Magic did. And that is saying something.

Posted on: 2/18/2009 11:28 am
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Re: Official NBA Thread
WMITC
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Totally agree, SOP.

And I agree with the Ninja Wookie's notion that it's hard to compare guys from vastly different eras (Wilt vs. Shaq, etc), but I don't think it's a stretch to compare Magic and MJ when they played against each other in the NBA Finals when Magic was in his 11th year in the league and Jordan was in his 6th.

Magic still had serious game at that point. (It would be another year before he retired "early" due to catching teh hiv.)

Here's a better question for you.

Who is the best forward of all time- Tim Duncan or Larry Bird?

(Note- These are the only acceptable answers to this question.)

Posted on: 2/18/2009 3:28 pm
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Re: Official NBA Thread
Pitt Hater
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Although I believe, at the very least, Dr. J should be included in the options, I am partial to Larry Legend.

Duncan is incredible, no doubt. He also had David Robinson to help him out and is so steady that it is almost a detriment. Larry had to battle the Magic comparisons his whole career and played in a big market, where failure wasn't an option. The weight on his shoulders was greater, IMO, and he was up to the challenge his entire career.

On top of that, his range was incredible for a guy his size. Duncan has range, but I don't think anyone would seriously argue that it is deeper than Bird's.

As a final point, I've never had the blessing of wasting a entire snow-day home from school playing a 2-d game called "Jordan vs. Duncan: One on One", so game, set, match to Bird.


Posted on: 2/18/2009 10:08 pm
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Re: Official NBA Thread
Pitt Hater
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From Orange Park Florida now Waynesburg, PA
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Larry Bird. He had an incredible shot. He just put everything all out on the court. (Did that make sense?) He just compensated for every thing he lacked with his hustle.

Posted on: 2/18/2009 10:18 pm
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Re: Official NBA Thread
WMITC
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From Eastern Panhandle, WV
Posts: 3914
Disclaimer: Tim Duncan is my favorite non-WVU player ever.

That said, I own jerseys for both these guys.

I think you've got to go with Duncan here based on defense, because the offensive numbers aren't that different.

Let's look at them side by side:

Duncan (11 year career)- 4 rings (and counting)
Bird (13 year career)- 3 rings

Stats
Duncan- 21.6 ppg, 11.8 rpg, 3.2 apg, .8 spg, 2.3 bpg, 51% shooting
Bird- 24.3 ppg, 10 rpg, 6.3 apg, 1.7 spg, .8 bpg, 50% shooting

Honors
Duncan- 2x NBA MVP (2002, 2003)
- 3x NBA Finals MVP (1999, 2003, 2005)
- 9x All-NBA First Team Selection (1998-2005, 2007) (And it should be noted here that he's pretty much guaranteed a 10th this season)
-7x NBA All-Defensive First Team Selection (again, will probably get another this year)
- 3x NBA All-Defensive Second Team Selection
- the only player in NBA history to receive All-NBA and All-Defensive honors in his first eleven seasons (1998-2008).

Bird- 3x NBA MVP (1984-1986)
- 2x NBA Finals MVP (1984, 1986)
- 9x All-NBA First Team Selection (1980-1988)
- 12x All-Star (1980-1988, 1990-1992)
- 3x NBA All-Defensive Second Team Selection (1982-1984)


All-Star teammates

Duncan- David Robinson, Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker
Bird- Robert Parish, Kevin McHale, Danny Ainge, Bill Walton, Dennis Johnson

Conclusion

Despite playing less years than Bird, Duncan bests him in every major award category except league MVPs (3-2), and no one would ever deny that Duncan's defense is vastly superior to Bird's. He's won more titles with less all-star teammates (though to be fair, the league is more watered down with expansion in Duncan's era), and he's still got the opportunity to win more.

Not by much, but I take Duncan.

Posted on: 2/19/2009 10:37 am
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